[SI-LIST] Re: Simulating frequency dependent s-parameters in HSPICE
- From: "Sinha, Snehamay" <snehamay@xxxxxx>
- To: Krishna Chaitanya <krishna1abc@xxxxxxxxx>, Ihsan Erdin <erdinih@xxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 23:32:15 +0000
Krishna,
The S-parameter models will have S11, S21, ...etc data at multiple frequency
points. When you run a simulation with S-paramater models in HSPICE, the
frequency domain data is first converted in time domain data (Fourier
transforms) and then convolution is used to calculate the nodal voltage and
currents.
So all the frequency dependence in the model is comprehended by HSPICE.
regards,
Snehamay
________________________________
From: Krishna Chaitanya [mailto:krishna1abc@xxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 4:42 PM
To: Ihsan Erdin; Sinha, Snehamay
Cc: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [SI-LIST] Simulating frequency dependent s-parameters in HSPICE
Hi Snehamay, Ihsan and others,
Thank you very much for the SPICE syntax. I used that for the simulations but
not clear how it guarantee frequency dependent RLGC are taken into account.
When I give a PRBS input corresponding to a bit rate of say 2GBPS (or 1 GHz of
clk), does it mean the HSPICE will pick the RLGC values corresponding to this
particular frequency of 1GHz?
I do not see any visible connection which tells the SPICE to pick the RLGC
values corresponding to the input data rate.
Can you please help me understand what is happening when I simulate using
s-parameters in HSPICE
On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 9:55 AM, Krishna Chaitanya
<krishna1abc@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:krishna1abc@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
Thanks all. I have few questions.
I did try using s-element and I am not clear how to interpret my simulation
results.
For a simple case of inverter based driver and receiver,
INV (driver) -> Through Silicon Via (Interconnect) -> Inv (Receiver)
I have the s-parameter touchstone file for a range of frequencies for TSV
extracted using Q3D extractor. I simulated this in HSPICE using s-element and I
got some eye diagram for a PRBS pattern for a particular input data rate.
From my understanding, the R and L values atleast change with frequency and
depending on that my eye opening should change.
If I use the s-element method, I get a single eye diagram. How should I
interpret it?
Does it mean the eye diagram which I get after simulating using s-element
includes the effect of all the frequencies on RLGC parasitics?
In short I am not clear how s-element simulations guarantee that my simulation
results include frequency dependent RLGC parasitics.
Thanks,
krishna
On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 9:29 AM, Ihsan Erdin
<erdinih@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:erdinih@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
Krishna,
In hspice, you can directly plug in those s-parameters to your netlist as an
s-element. As there's no need for a w-element using one wouldn't be right
either. You can model the rest of the tracks with the w-element. Below, I
suspect you're referring to a totally different case which is about assigning
freq. dependent PUL parameters to the w-element from a touchstone file. This
can only be be used when the track parameters are computed with a third party
tool and completely irrelevant to what you're trying to accomplish in this
particular situation -if I understood your case correctly, of course...
Regards,
Ihsan
On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 11:28 AM, Krishna Chaitanya
<krishna1abc@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:krishna1abc@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
Hello All,
I am trying to analyze the impact of frequency dependent parasitics of
Through Silicon Vias on data rate. I used Ansoft Q3D extract to obtain RLGC
parasitics as s-parameter Touchstone file for a range of frequencies. Now I
would like to know how can I use this file in HSPICE simulation. When I use
w-element method in HSPICE it can take touchstone file as input but I am
not sure whether it is the correct way to simulate any frequency dependent
parasitics in HSPICE.
Any help?
Thanks,
Krishna
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