After an extensive evaluation of hyperlynx 7.2, an evaluation of ICX, and lots of experience with SpecctraQuest, now Allegro PCB SI, I can tell you that all three tools will do the job. It is a question of how quickly you need to analyze the board, how steep the tool learning curve is, and exactly what you want the tool to do. The following is purely from my experience with the tools and I know some folks will disagree: ICX has an incredibly steep learning curve and doesn't perform well with complicated high density designs. As well, you need this license feature and then that one etc. The UI is really clunky. It is no good with importing complicated designs from other layout tools. Allegro PCB SI (the one without the S parameter capabilities) is probably the best tool for a rapid, complete analysis of a board and has good features for export to obtain timing data to allow easy post-route STA and to do a report. It has a lot of depth and capability that is mainly learned by experience. The UI is pretty good but needs a bit of work for some menus. The S parameter version looks pretty neat and I'm looking forward to trying it. One problem with the tool is that it doesn't have a built in import from Mentor Expedition. Hyperlynx has some great utilities like eye mask, PRBS generation (not just random patterns), and other info regarding comparing loss due to tan delta or skin effect, etc. It is very easy to use (a couple of hours and you are on your way). Unfortunately, the UI is inefficient for rapid analysis of a whole board but it is good for looking at key nets in detail. The waveform viewer leaves a lot to be desired. The tool has a great rapid cross-talk analysis feature that the other two tools lack. It's display of cross-talk coupled tracks is really useful. The next release, 7.5, promises to fix a few of the inefficiences. Hyperlynx has import capabilities from most popular layout tools. All three tools are approaching each other in price for the full packages. Cheers, Kai -----Original Message----- From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Lai, Ricky (Eng Hou) Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2004 2:15 PM To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: SI Simulation post layout Another tool from Mentor, ICX, will allow you to do exactly what you want: cut the nets or stubs, and then re-simulate without re-translation. Ricky -----Original Message----- From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Chris McGrath Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2004 1:04 PM To: Nitin.Sood@xxxxxxx; si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: SI Simulation post layout Nitin, I have done a bunch of post-route simulations where I take the Boardsim file and export the net to Linesim with reasonable success. The latest Hyperlynx exports vias as lumped capacitive loads whereas the Boardsim via representation appears to be more realistic as compared to our correlations on real hardware. Exporting and tweaking in Linesim was good enough for us to then recommend changes to layout and then re-import the design into Boardsim for final verification, but there are noticable differences between the Boardsim waveform and the same net exported to Linesim. It isn't perfect, but that is the best I was able to do with Hyperlynx. I would be anxious to hear about any other suggestions. -Chris > -----Original Message----- > From: Nitin Sood [mailto:Nitin.Sood@xxxxxxx]=3D20 > Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2004 1:13 PM > To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: [SI-LIST] SI Simulation post layout >=3D20 >=3D20 > Hello, >=3D20 > Is there a tool that would allow me to simulate post layout=3D20 = design >with greater flexibility to analyze nets, edit nets=3D20 and see its=20 >effect on the integrity of the signal? =3D20 > Hyper-lynx doesn't allow me to cut nets or stubs and see its=3D20 > effect on =3D3D the signal. Every change intended needs to be=3D20 > incorporated in the layout and =3D3D then translated into=3D20 > hyper-lynx to be re-simulated. >=3D20 > I appreciate your time and any leads. >=3D20 > Thanks > Nitin Sood. >=3D20 >=3D20 >=3D20 > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > To unsubscribe from si-list: > si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field >=3D20 > or to administer your membership from a web page, go to:=3D20 > //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list >=3D20 > For help: > si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field >=3D20 > List FAQ wiki page is located at: > http://si-list.org/wiki/wiki.pl?Si-List_FAQ >=3D20 > List technical documents are available at: > http://www.si-list.org >=3D20 > List archives are viewable at: =3D20 > //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list > or at our remote archives: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages > Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: > http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu > =3D20 >=3D20 >=3D20 ------------------------------------------------------------------ To unsubscribe from si-list: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list For help: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field List FAQ wiki page is located at: http://si-list.org/wiki/wiki.pl?Si-List_FAQ List technical documents are available at: http://www.si-list.org List archives are viewable at: =20 //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list or at our remote archives: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu =20 ------------------------------------------------------------------ To unsubscribe from si-list: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list For help: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field List FAQ wiki page is located at: http://si-list.org/wiki/wiki.pl?Si-List_FAQ List technical documents are available at: http://www.si-list.org List archives are viewable at: //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list or at our remote archives: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu ------------------------------------------------------------------ To unsubscribe from si-list: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list For help: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field List FAQ wiki page is located at: http://si-list.org/wiki/wiki.pl?Si-List_FAQ List technical documents are available at: http://www.si-list.org List archives are viewable at: //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list or at our remote archives: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu