[SI-LIST] Re: Routing Signals Between PWB Layers - Part 2
- From: "Mark Randol" <Mark.Randol@xxxxxxxxxx>
- To: "SI-List" <si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Thu, 4 May 2006 12:29:32 -0700
For free, there's Sonnet Lite. There are memory limitations, but if
you're clever you can work around them for many problems.
www.sonnetsoftware.com
--
Mark Randol, RF Evaluation & Application Engineer
ON Semiconductor
901 S. Mopac Expressway
Barton Oaks IV, Suite 343
Austin, TX 78746
512-329-5640 (voice), 512-329-8151 (FAX)
=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx=20
> [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Joel Brown
> Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2006 12:25 PM
> To: scott@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Cc: lnima@xxxxxxxxxx; istvan.novak@xxxxxxx; SI-List
> Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Routing Signals Between PWB Layers - Part 2
>=20
> Just curious. What is the approximate single user cost of=20
> those products?
> Thanks - Joel
>=20
>=20
> Scott McMorrow wrote:
> > Sigrity Power SI and Ansoft SIWave will both do what you're=20
> looking for.
> > Scott McMorrow
> > Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC
> > 121 North River Drive
> > Narragansett, RI 02882
> > (401) 284-1827 Business
> > (401) 284-1840 Fax
> >
> > http://www.teraspeed.com
> >
> > Teraspeed(r) is the registered service mark of Teraspeed Consulting=20
> > Group LLC
> >
> >
> >
> > Nima Lotfi wrote:
> > =20
> >> Istvan,
> >>
> >> I'm looking for a tool to simulate board resonance. Did you use=20
> >> simulation software to confirm the frequency of modal resonance of=20
> >> the PCB planes? If so can tell me what tool you've used.
> >>
> >> Thanks,=3D20
> >> ______________________=3D20
> >> Nima Lotfi, P. Eng=3D20
> >> Digital Hardware Design Engineer=3D20
> >> Nortel
> >>
> >>
> >> 758-7786 ESN=3D20
> >> (403) 769-7786 Direct=3D20
> >> (403) 769-5350 Fax=3D20
> >> LNima@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx=3D20
> >>
> >>
> >> =20
> >> =20
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>> =20
> >>> =20
> >> [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> >> =20
> >> =20
> >>> On Behalf Of Istvan Novak
> >>> Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2006 7:10 AM
> >>> To: GStokes@xxxxxxxxx
> >>> Cc: SI-List
> >>> Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Routing Signals Between PWB Layers=20
> - Part 2=20
> >>> =3D20 Geoff, Doug, =3D20 This example nicely shows the importance =
of=20
> >>> proper power distribution design.
> >>> =3D20
> >>> The emission peaks correspond to the modal resonances of the PCB
> >>> =20
> >>> =20
> >> planes.
> >> =20
> >> =20
> >>> As Doug points out in the article, moving the planes closer would
> >>> =20
> >>> =20
> >> reduce
> >> =20
> >> =20
> >>> the
> >>> emission about proportionally. However, if one wants to=20
> stay with a=20
> >>> four-layer construction, reducing the plane separation is not a=20
> >>> viable solution:
> >>> =20
> >>> =20
> >> it
> >> =20
> >> =20
> >>> would
> >>> either result in an unmanageably thin board, or if we add the
> >>> =20
> >>> =20
> >> tickhness
> >> =20
> >> =20
> >>> back to
> >>> the top/bottom dielectrics, in a dramatically reduced=20
> routing density.
> >>> =3D20
> >>> Nearby grounding vias would help, but in practical cases the two
> >>> =20
> >>> =20
> >> planes
> >> =20
> >> =20
> >>> are at
> >>> different DC potentials, so it must be a bypass capacitor rather=20
> >>> than
> >>> =20
> >>> =20
> >> a
> >> =20
> >> =20
> >>> stitching
> >>> via. A single bypass capacitor will do little in the hundreds of=20
> >>> MHz frequency range, even if it serves only one signal. =20
> Also, if we=20
> >>> have wide busses
> >>> =20
> >>> =20
> >> instead
> >> =20
> >> =20
> >>> of a single
> >>> trace, trying to provide a return path locally to all of=20
> the layer=20
> >>> transitions becomes much harder to implement.
> >>> =3D20
> >>> A more realistic and straightforward solution is to design the=20
> >>> power-distribution network in such a way that it does not exhibit=20
> >>> large resonances. In multi-layer boards, where we may also have=20
> >>> ground-ground planes creating such cavities, the solution is=20
> >>> stitching vias, but not necessarily near the layer=20
> transitions. We=20
> >>> would just need to make sure that the large resonating cavity is=20
> >>> broken up
> >>> =20
> >>> =20
> >> to
> >> =20
> >> =20
> >>> sufficiently
> >>> small blocks such that the lowest resonance frequency is safely=20
> >>> above the highest frequency of excitation.
> >>> =3D20
> >>> Regards,
> >>> =3D20
> >>> Istvan Novak
> >>> SUN Microsystems
> >>> =3D20
> >>> =3D20
> >>> =3D20
> >>> Geoff Stokes wrote:
> >>> =3D20
> >>> =20
> >>> =20
> >>>> Hi Doug
> >>>>
> >>>> In this experiment, you appear to have no plane vias adjacent to=20
> >>>> the signal vias. What would happen if a few plane vias=20
> were added=20
> >>>> around the transitions and fairly close by?
> >>>>
> >>>> Geoff Stokes
> >>>> Systems Engineer
> >>>> Zetex Semiconductors plc
> >>>> Zetex Technology Park
> >>>> Chadderton
> >>>> Oldham
> >>>> OL9 9LL
> >>>> UK
> >>>> =3D3D20
> >>>> +44-161-622-4857
> >>>> www.zetex.com
> >>>> www.zetex.cn
> >>>> =3D3D20
> >>>>
> >>>> =3D3D20
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>> =20
> >>>> =20
> >> [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> >> =20
> >> =20
> >>>> On Behalf Of Doug Smith
> >>>> Sent: 03 May 2006 21:41
> >>>> To: SI-List
> >>>> Subject: [SI-LIST] Routing Signals Between PWB Layers - Part 2
> >>>>
> >>>> Hi All,
> >>>>
> >>>> I have been writing and recording again and have posted part 2 of
> >>>> =20
> >>>> =20
> >> my=3D3D20
> >> =20
> >> =20
> >>>> article on signals that change layers in a PWB.
> >>>>
> >>>> Abstract: Printed wiring board, PWB, signal paths must often
> >>>> =20
> >>>> =20
> >> change=3D3D20
> >> =20
> >> =20
> >>>> layers in a board stackup. Under some conditions this can=20
> >>>> cause=3D3D20 problems. An emissions example is used to=20
> illustrate the
> >>>> =20
> >>>> =20
> >> conditions=3D3D20
> >> =20
> >> =20
> >>>> where changing layers can cause problems.
> >>>>
> >>>> The link to the article is the picture of the emissions plot at
> >>>> =20
> >>>> =20
> >> the=3D3D20
> >> =20
> >> =20
> >>>> bottom of the home page at http://emcesd.com .
> >>>>
> >>>> There is also an audio discussion of this article on my podcast
> >>>> =20
> >>>> =20
> >> site:=3D3D20
> >> =20
> >> =20
> >>>> http://emcesd-podcast.com where the direct link to the=20
> article is:
> >>>>
> >>>> http://emcesd-podcast.com/2006/may/2006-0503.mp3
> >>>>
> >>>> Can't download mp3 files? Download the following instead:
> >>>>
> >>>> http://emcesd-podcast.com/2006/may/2006-0503.dcs
> >>>>
> >>>> After download, change the extension from .dcs to .mp3 and the
> >>>> =20
> >>>> =20
> >> file=3D3D20
> >> =20
> >> =20
> >>>> will then be able to play on most computers. Since the last =3D
> >>>> =20
> >>>> =20
> >> HFNews=3D3D20
> >> =20
> >> =20
> >>>> there have been two new podcasts posted.
> >>>>
> >>>> Doug
> >>>> --=3D3D20
> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------
> >>>> ___ _ Doug Smith
> >>>> \ / ) P.O. Box 1457
> >>>> =
=3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D3D3D =20
> Los =3D
> >>>> =20
> >>>> =20
> >> Gatos, CA 95031-1457
> >> =20
> >> =20
> >>>> _ / \ / \ _ TEL/FAX: 408-356-4186/358-3799
> >>>> / /\ \ ] / /\ \ Mobile: 408-858-4528
> >>>> | q-----( ) | o | Email: doug@xxxxxxxxxx
> >>>> \ _ / ] \ _ / Website: http://www.dsmith.org
> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> =20
> >>>> =20
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> -- Type: text/x-vcard
> -- File: joel.vcf
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