[SI-LIST] Re: Right Angle Bends
- From: Sol Tatlow <Sol.Tatlow@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: Lee Ritchey <leeritchey@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2011 18:00:05 +0000
Lee,
Would you care to share some links to those works dispelling this myth? I know
I saw one paper testing even (sharp) 45 degree corners (or is that really 135
degree?) up to 100 MHz or so, with no measurable differences, but have not seen
any in the double figure GHz region... you have my mouth watering;)!!
With regards to your comments on not backing up simulations with real world
measurements I can 100% agree!
Regards,
Sol Tatlow
On 15.07.2011, at 19:45, "Lee Ritchey" <leeritchey@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> None of these calculations are substantiated by actual measurements.
>
> There are several published works with actual testing out to 20+ GHz
> measuring signal traces that show there is no detectable effect on signal
> quality.
>
> I have a half dozen test PCBs which have been used to make the same
> measurements and I have published the results as well as shown them to 8000+
> students in my public and private classes.
>
> Our industry has a problem with people doing simulations from which
> conclusions are drawn without validating the simulations. Often, as in the
> case of right angle bends, much time and money is spent by designers making
> something go away that is of no consequence.
>
> Simulations without validation can be very dangerous.
>
> Lee Ritchey
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Zabinski, Patrick" <zabinski.patrick@xxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Friday, July 15, 2011 9:46 AM
> To: <si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Right Angle Bends
>
>> Here are a few of the earlier references on the topic.
>>
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> TITLE Calculation of Microstrip Bends and Y-Junctions With Arbitrary
>> Angle
>> AUTHOR Reza Mehran
>> SOURCE IEEE Transactions on MTT, MTT-26
>> DATE June, 1978
>> PAGES 400-405
>>
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> TITLE Microstrip - A New Transmission Technique for the Kilomegacycle
>> Range
>> AUTHOR D. D. Grieg & H. F. Engelmann
>> SOURCE Proceedings of the IRE
>> VOLUME 40
>> DATE December, 1952
>> PAGES 1644-1650
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>
>> These offer related info.
>>
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> TITLE Equivalent Circuit Modeling of Interconnects From Time-Domain
>> Measurements
>> AUTHOR Jyh-Ming Jong, Bozidar Janko, and Vijai Tripathi
>> SOURCE IEEE Trans. on CHMT
>> VOLUME 16
>> NUMBER 1
>> DATE February, 1993
>> PAGES 119-126
>>
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> TITLE Equivalent Circuits for Discontinuities in Balanced Transmission
>> Strip Lines
>> AUTHOR Arthur A. Oliner
>> SOURCE IRE Trans Micorwave Theory & Techniques
>> VOLUME MTT-3
>> DATE March, 1955
>> PAGES 134-143
>>
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> TITLE Experimental Determination of the Properties of Microstrip
>> Components
>> AUTHOR Maurice Ardit
>> SOURCE Electrical Communication
>> VOLUME 30
>> DATE December, 1953
>> PAGES 283-293
>>
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> TITLE Time-Domain Characterization of Interconnect Discontinuities in
>> High-Speed Circuits
>> AUTHOR Jyh-Ming Jong and Vijai K. Tripathi
>> SOURCE IEEE Trans on CHMT
>> VOLUME 15
>> NUMBER 4
>> DATE August, 1992
>> PAGES 497-504
>>
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~<done>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>
>> Enjoy,
>> Pat Zabinski
>> Mayo Clinic
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
>> On Behalf Of Lee Ritchey
>> Sent: Friday, July 15, 2011 11:33 AM
>> To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Right Angle Bends
>>
>> Does anyone know the origin of the myth that right angle bends cause
>> signal integrity problems?
>>
>> I though this myth had died a long time ago, but had a conversation last
>> week with a well known fabricator who was told by a customer that right
>> angle bends were a no no.
>>
>> This was a customer who should know better.
>>
>> Lee Ritchey
>> Speeding Edge
>>
>>
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