[SI-LIST] Re: RLC value extraction for power plane
- From: Faraydon Pakbaz <pakbazf@xxxxxxxxxx>
- To: steve weir <weirsi@xxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2011 11:15:36 -0400
Hi Steve;
Thanks for confirming this!...In past five years I have been using this
method very very successfully. I can practically use any
Bode plots which is causal and covert it to rational transfer function and
generate RLC models. Lot of these expensive
tools (Not to pick on anybody) cannot do it properly or if they do they
give you a block box model which you cannot see
the Poles and Zeros. I found it writing few scripts in Matlab or MathCad or
perhaps C-language works just fine. What I found it
most useful is that you may have S-parameter data which can give a transfer
function having 30 zeros and 31 poles but you
can setup a mixed mode simulation. Meaning just convert a portion of
transfer function to RLC and keep the rest in S-domain
and pick on the particular frequency of interest (due to nature of partial
fraction expansion) ..... To be honest I found some SI experts
do not like these methods but I think it is getting better as the power
this methodology becomes more visible!
Regards;
Don Pakbaz
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|steve weir <weirsi@xxxxxxxxxx>
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|Faraydon Pakbaz/Burlington/IBM@IBMUS
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| Cc: |
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|"bennyluiss@xxxxxxxxx" <bennyluiss@xxxxxxxxx>, Rohit MISHRA
<rohit.mishra@xxxxxx>, "si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
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|si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
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|08/05/2011 08:53 AM
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|[SI-LIST] Re: RLC value extraction for power plane
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Don, yes on both counts.
Steve.
On 8/5/2011 5:36 AM, Faraydon Pakbaz wrote:
>
> Hi Steve;
>
> This will give Impedance Transfer function and using partial fraction
> method you can convert this to RLC
> representation. Is this what you meant? Thanks.
>
> Regards;
>
> Don Pakbaz
>
>
> Inactive hide details for steve weir ---08/05/2011 04:01:18
> AM---Rohit, fit poles and zeroes to the mag/phase response.
> Steve.steve weir ---08/05/2011 04:01:18 AM---Rohit, fit poles and
> zeroes to the mag/phase response. Steve.
>
>
> From:
> steve weir <weirsi@xxxxxxxxxx>
>
> To:
> Rohit MISHRA <rohit.mishra@xxxxxx>
>
> Cc:
> "si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
> "bennyluiss@xxxxxxxxx" <bennyluiss@xxxxxxxxx>
>
> Date:
> 08/05/2011 04:01 AM
>
> Subject:
> [SI-LIST] Re: RLC value extraction for power plane
>
> Sent by:
> si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> Rohit, fit poles and zeroes to the mag/phase response.
>
> Steve.
>
> On 8/5/2011 12:23 AM, Rohit MISHRA wrote:
> > Hello Benny,
> >
> >
> > Welcome to the world of Signal Integrity !! :-)
> >
> >
> > I am not sure if hyperlynx has ability to extract RLGC values but
> you can sure use other field solvers like momentum, Q3D or HFSS to
> extract RLGC/Z parameters of power plane.
> >
> > To extract RLGC value from field solver, you don't need to define
> voltage values instead you define ports at both end of traces and
> define the frequency range of interest, that's all !
> >
> > Steve,
> >
> > I understand that ac current source can be used to find complex
> impedance or PDN impedance in this case but if someone is interested
> in finding RLGC values, how is it possible to extract from PDN
> impedance ??
> >
> > Rgds,
> > Rohit
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of steve weir
> > Sent: Friday, August 05, 2011 11:49 AM
> > To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: RLC value extraction for power plane
> >
> > Define a port and apply an AC current source at the location where you
> > want to know the impedance. Sweep the frequency range of interest.
The
> > complex voltage divided by the excitation current yields the complex
> > impedance.
> >
> > Steve.
> > On 8/4/2011 10:15 PM, Benny Luiss wrote:
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> I am Benny an SI novice.Can any one help how to extract RLC values
> for power plane. I have tried in Cadence and Hyperlynx but couldn't
> able to extract (even by removing voltage values assigned for the
> power nets).
> >> Do any other software like Ansoft or HFSS provide this?
> >>
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Benny
> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------
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> >
>
>
> --
> Steve Weir
> IPBLOX, LLC
> 150 N. Center St. #211
> Reno, NV 89501
> www.ipblox.com
>
> (775) 299-4236 Business
> (866) 675-4630 Toll-free
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--
Steve Weir
IPBLOX, LLC
150 N. Center St. #211
Reno, NV 89501
www.ipblox.com
(775) 299-4236 Business
(866) 675-4630 Toll-free
(707) 780-1951 Fax
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