How accurate can these models be for a bond wire with its unpredictable soldering conditions or other joint condictions in the real world? Regards, Celine >From: <gianguida@xxxxxxxx> >Reply-To: gianguida@xxxxxxxx >To: <steven.salkow@xxxxxxxx>,<weirsi@xxxxxxxxxx>,<si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> >CC: <dburns@xxxxxxxxxx> >Subject: [SI-LIST] R: Re: Wire bonding >Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 18:09:55 +0200 > >dear Steven, >I would disagree with you >up to date 3D simulator does not require several days just to setup a model >in addition if you can get a good support and a training >I am quite sure it is possible to setup several model in one day :-))) > >Respectfully >Giancarlo >-----Messaggio originale----- >Da: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx per conto di Salkow, Steven >Inviato: mar 08/08/2006 17.35 >A: weirsi@xxxxxxxxxx; si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >Cc: dburns@xxxxxxxxxx >Oggetto: [SI-LIST] Re: Wire bonding > >David: >3D field solvers are very hard to use and require several days to even >set up a simulation. There are people that are experts at this and >affordably charge by the hour. >Here's a contact >Douglas Burns ,Vice President, Consulting Services/Chief Consultant >,Signal Integrity Software, Inc. ,6 Clock Tower Place ,Maynard, MA 01754 >,978-461-0449 x14 ,dburns@xxxxxxxxxx , CCA pcb design > >By the way, 3D field solvers are very expensive and have a steep >learning curve. > >Another approach is to find someone using the same package you are using >that has an IBIS model for it. The pin parasitics should be in the ASCII >file. (many IBIS files are available for download) > >Steven Salkow >Senior Staff >Lockheed IS&S >3130 Zanker Rd, San Jose >Ca. 94588 >(408) 473-4058 > >steven.salkow@xxxxxxxx >salkow@xxxxxxxxxxxx > > > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] >On Behalf Of steve weir >Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 8:24 PM >To: dan1_st@xxxxxxxxx; si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Wire bonding > >David, unless you have considerable experience with structures that >have very similar geometry you can not estimate reliably accurate >numbers. 5Gb is fast enough that you have the potential to excite >some less than amusing resonances that can keep you from transferring >much energy between your sources and intended loads. Your packaging >house may be able to help you. Otherwise you need to find 3D field >solver software and someone who knows how to drive it. > >Steve. >At 02:22 PM 8/7/2006, david stern wrote: > >HI > > > >We are designing an electro-optical element for > >infiniband optical transceiver. > >We are using a driver as a dye chip with wire bonding > >process. > >The 1 mil wire is 1mm long. One side of the dye chip > >is using 2 wires for differential input > >and on the other side we use 1 wire surrounded with 2 > >GND wires for signal. > >Our devices are design to work at baud rate of 5Gbps. > > > >I tried to get information on the web about signal > >integrity for high speed wire bond without any > >success. > > > > 1. Where can I find material about SI for wire > >bonding? > >2. how shall I define wire bond in simulation? shall > >I defied it as inductor? > >3. How shall I calculate the impedance of the wire > >bonding? > >4. Are there cases were wire bond can be neglect due > >to the fact that it place right after the driver or > > right before the receiver? > > > > > >Thanks in advance > >David > > > > > > > >__________________________________________________ > >Do You Yahoo!? > >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > >http://mail.yahoo.com > >------------------------------------------------------------------ > >To unsubscribe from si-list: > >si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field > > > >or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: > >//www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list > > > >For help: > >si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field > > > >List FAQ wiki page is located at: > > http://si-list.org/wiki/wiki.pl?Si-List_FAQ > > > >List technical documents are available at: > > http://www.si-list.org > > > >List archives are viewable at: > > //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list > >or at our remote archives: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages > >Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: > > http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------ >To unsubscribe from si-list: >si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field > >or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: >//www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list > >For help: >si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field > >List FAQ wiki page is located at: > http://si-list.org/wiki/wiki.pl?Si-List_FAQ > >List technical documents are available at: > http://www.si-list.org > >List archives are viewable at: > //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list >or at our remote archives: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages >Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: > http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu > > >------------------------------------------------------------------ >To unsubscribe from si-list: >si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field > >or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: >//www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list > >For help: >si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field > >List FAQ wiki page is located at: > http://si-list.org/wiki/wiki.pl?Si-List_FAQ > >List technical documents are available at: > http://www.si-list.org > >List archives are viewable at: > //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list >or at our remote archives: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages >Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: > http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------ >To unsubscribe from si-list: >si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field > >or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: >//www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list > >For help: >si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field > >List FAQ wiki page is located at: > http://si-list.org/wiki/wiki.pl?Si-List_FAQ > >List technical documents are available at: > http://www.si-list.org > >List archives are viewable at: > //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list >or at our remote archives: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages >Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: > http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ To unsubscribe from si-list: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list For help: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field List FAQ wiki page is located at: http://si-list.org/wiki/wiki.pl?Si-List_FAQ List technical documents are available at: http://www.si-list.org List archives are viewable at: //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list or at our remote archives: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu