[SI-LIST] Re: Proper use of the Si-List
- From: "Lee Ritchey" <leeritchey@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: "Ken Cantrell" <Ken.Cantrell@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, weirsp@xxxxxxxxxx, johndp@xxxxxxxx, si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 09:19:03 -0700
Good reply.
Lee W. Ritchey
Speeding Edge
P. O. Box 2194
Glen Ellen, CA 95442
Phone- 707-568-3983
FAX- 707-568-3504
I just used the energy it took to be angry to write some blues.
Count Basie
> [Original Message]
> From: Ken Cantrell <Ken.Cantrell@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <weirsp@xxxxxxxxxx>; <johndp@xxxxxxxx>; <si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Date: 9/20/2004 8:41:05 AM
> Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Proper use of the Si-List
>
> This one is someting of a Gordian knot, isn't it? I agree that "delete"
> works just fine, but it would be preferrable if everyone did "due
> engineering diligence" before posting a question. I have to agree with Ed
> that the list is not for beginners (meaning someone who obviously has not
> even attempted to research their question), other than to ask for
> suggestions on appropritate texts/articles, etc., for further study. Do
> your homework first, and then ask a meaningful question if you still have
> one. You might find that you can solve your own problems.
> As far as consultants and authors advertising - keep it short, post a
link.
> In the vast majority of instances, those who represent the front line of
> consultancy understand this and do not violate it. If you are not sure,
ask
> Ray. Personally, I want to be alerted about upcoming events/opportunities
> that any of our senior members are hosting. I used "alerted"
intentionally,
> which translated means - short, post a link.
> Snide remarks and quirks - not sure which particular instance Ed was
> referring to here, they pop up from time to time, but they obviously
should
> be minimized. We are professionals and should act that way. On the flip
> side, no one is perfect, and I've seen some very heated discussions that
> still yielded information that was useful to myself, and assumedly the SI
> community at large. The price of free speech is volatility. Delete as
> required.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of steve weir
> Sent: Monday, September 20, 2004 4:51 AM
> To: johndp@xxxxxxxx; si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Proper use of the Si-List
>
>
> My views tend to align with John. If a poster becomes offensive, or just
> seem unable or unwilling to tie their own shoes, then eventually they just
> get ignored.
>
> Where I differ a bit with John is on the consultant issue. It takes an
> incredible amount of thought and effort to publish technical material of
> any value be it a book, or a seminar. In the meantime, the many
> consultants here through their: posting, courses, books and consulting
have
> provided immeasurable assistance to many people and companies. I think a
> little reminder that consultants eat too is a cheap price to pay for all
> that value.
>
> Regards to all.
>
> Steve.
> At 10:49 AM 9/20/2004 +0100, john wrote:
> >While I would agree that the SI-List is not somewhere to get first
> >semester degree (or in some cases it appears even secondary school)
> >education, it is however a place of learning. It is a place where views
> >can be expressed and questions asked, it is not a place for free
> >advertising for books, courses or consulting services. If a list member
> >(who gains no financial benefit form the goods/services) recommends a
> >particular course ,or book then that is a different matter.
> >
> >I recently heard a consultant say something on the lines of ' I can not
> >understand some members of the SI list giving away there IP for free',
> >this same consultant recently asked the list for advice for which I'm
> >sure they could have paid another consultant for.... maybe this was why
> >there was only limited response.
> >
> >The list pretty much regulates itself for content, if questions are to
> >basic or if they require to much IP, then they are normally ignored.
> >If a problem is posted that a lot of us a facing then normally a good
> >debate happens and the readers/posters are left to make there own
> >technical decision based on the discussion.
> >
> >Yes, some of the questions can be infuriating when the author shows no
> >ability to help themselves, however there is a filter mechanism, it is a
> >handy key marked 'delete'.
> >
> >Regards
> >
> >John
> >
> >
> >Dr. Edward P. Sayre wrote:
> >
> > >Folks:
> > >
> > >I think its time we put the use of the SI-List in perspective and lay
> down
> > >some rules:
> > >
> > >In my opinion, I think it should be a clearly stated goal that the
> SI-List
> > >is not a place for beginners to learn. It should be a place for
> discussion
> > >of substantive alternate points of view and in-depth questions on new
> > >technology, tools and SI techniques. There are many seminars and books
> that
> > >should be consulted before bringing elementary problems to the SI-List
> list
> > >membership. A quick search on Google will suffice on this point.
> > >
> > >The SI-List should not be the place to get free technical
> > >consulting. There are many capable consultants whose professional
> > >livelihood depends on helping existing and new clients with their
> problems
> > >in a cost effective and rapid manner. Many excellent suggestions can
be
> > >found on the Si-List by these folks and it is not a burden to find out
> who
> > >they are and how they can help you. If your project has not been funded
> to
> > >support the required work, whether by yourself or a consultant, then
the
> > >list should not be burdened by requests for free help.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >>As many of you know, I am one of those senior SI guys. I'm sick and
> tired
> > >>of getting slammed because of that long experience I bring to the
table
> > >>and frankly, I hate seeing the recent snide remarks and personalities
> > >>quirks expressed on the SI-List. The SI-List has been and should be
> > >>strictly for substantive technical questions to be asked and answered.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >ed sayre
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
> > >| NORTH EAST SYSTEMS ASSOCIATES, INC. |
> > >| ------------------------------------- |
> > >| "High Performance Engineering & Design" |
> > >+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
> > >| Dr. Ed Sayre e-mail: esayre@xxxxxxxx |
> > >| NESA, Inc. http://www.nesa.com/ |
> > >| Primrose Park Tel +1.978.392-8787 |
> > >| 5 LAN Drive, Ste 200 Fax +1.978.392-8686 |
> > >| Westford, MA 01886 |
> > >+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
> > >
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