Russell's email on this really makes the most sense. I completely understand being concerned if you get a charge request when asking to have those values for the materials being used on a project. I guess the real question lies with what was the "rest of the information" around the original question? My thoughts on this would be if you had a project built and the designer then asks for the information to be taken off the live PCB (instead of a test coupon) that could have some bearing on this discussion. Also, how many test measurements would be required (for the $100 fee)? The most commonly used TDR in PCB fabrication is not capable of measuring loss tangent and the Er' measurement on this unit is probably not the best (when compared to a DSO TDR inside a lab environment). Now frequency has been mentioned in some other emails on this topic. TDR is "time domain" and really is somewhat different than "frequency domain" (VNA's). Your average PCB fabricator does not have access (or own) a VNA and would have to subcontract that service. If frequency was a part of the original request maybe that helped drive the cost parameter. (?) If the original request was ONLY for the relative electrical performance information on the raw laminate material which would come from the laminate manufacturer, then I agree. The $100 charge was not competitive with the rest of the industry. Regards, David Hoover http://home.earthlink.net/~dhoovy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Russell D. Moser" <r.moser@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> To: <tony_dunbar@xxxxxxxxxxx>; <si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 5:53 PM Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: PCB stackup material properties for a fee? > Was the information more than they normally supply? For example, we note > that many data for dielectric, loss tangent are spec'd at the 100's of MHz, > some around a GHz; I could envision a backcharge for testing a coupon at > some "custom" frequency. > If this wasn't your case, find a new board vendor. > > > Regards, > _________________________ > Russell D. Moser, Principal > The Orion Group > r.moser@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > www.theoriongroup.net > 717.503.6682 (cell) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On > Behalf Of Dunbar, Tony > Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 6:33 PM > To: 'si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx' > Subject: [SI-LIST] PCB stackup material properties for a fee? > > Has anyone experienced - or care to comment upon - a board vendor asking a > fee ($100 in this case) to supply dielectric property information (Er, Loss > Tangent, etc.) to an end-user board designer? > > Thanks > Tony > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > To unsubscribe from si-list: > si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field > > or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: > //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list > > For help: > si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field > > List FAQ wiki page is located at: > http://si-list.org/wiki/wiki.pl?Si-List_FAQ > > List technical documents are available at: > http://www.si-list.org > > List archives are viewable at: > //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list > or at our remote archives: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages > Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: > http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > To unsubscribe from si-list: > si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field > > or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: > //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list > > For help: > si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field > > List FAQ wiki page is located at: > http://si-list.org/wiki/wiki.pl?Si-List_FAQ > > List technical documents are available at: > http://www.si-list.org > > List archives are viewable at: > //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list > or at our remote archives: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages > Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: > http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ To unsubscribe from si-list: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list For help: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field List FAQ wiki page is located at: http://si-list.org/wiki/wiki.pl?Si-List_FAQ List technical documents are available at: http://www.si-list.org List archives are viewable at: //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list or at our remote archives: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu