You can also use evaluation software. Tools like Hyperlynx or Sonnet offer free
evaluation with limited time and/or other limitations. Usually these eval
versions are good enough to check these basics, and very small scale problems.
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-----Original Message-----
From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On ;
Behalf Of Sanjeev Gupta
Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2017 12:43 PM
To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: aakash6164@xxxxxxxxx; Hermann Ruckerbauer
<Hermann.Ruckerbauer@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>; tom@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: NEXT and FEXT Profile for a Pulse
Akash
If you do not have access of expensive tools and still want to build your SI
basics with the help of simulations . You can still explore everything
suggested on this forum related to NEXT/FEXT, reflections , transmission lines
etc. using ngspice or QUCS (as suggested by Hermann). Ngspice will give you
further idea about how the spice code is written for any simulations such as
ac, dc or transient.
Thanks
Sanjeev
On Jun 19, 2017 10:18 PM, "Abe Riazi" <riaziabe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Hi Tom,
The reason I mentioned terminating each end of the victim line is that
if the victim line lacks proper termination, it can cause the
crosstalk signal at one end of the line to get reflected (either
completely or partially) and travel to the other end of the line.
This can lead to undesirable effects.
For instance, in case of stripline, FEXT can be almost zero, if the
line is properly terminated. However, in case of poor termination, the
NEXT noise can get reflected back from the near end of the line and
result in far-end crosstalk.
Thank you,
Abe
On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 3:14 PM, Tom Dagostino <tom@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
Abethe
Your comment : " A crosstalk simulation of a topology consisting of
an aggressor line and a victim, usually requires terminating both
ends of
victim line."the
I think should read more along the lines of "any simulation should
have
ends of the nets terminated as they are on the DUT of interest." Ifthe
the victim is a source only terminated line there is no reason to
terminate
victim in the simulation.a
Thoughts?
Tom Dagostino
971-279-5325
tom@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Teraspeed Labs
9999 SW Wilshire Street
Suite 102
Portland, OR 97225
-----Original Message-----
From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On
Behalf Of Abe Riazi
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 2:48 PM
To: Hermann.Ruckerbauer@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: aakash6164@xxxxxxxxx; si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: NEXT and FEXT Profile for a Pulse
Hi,
Since crosstalk is such an important topic in field of signal
integrity, numerous tools and methodologies have been developed for
analysis of crosstalk effects.
For instance, there exist rules of thumb, mathematical equations and
calculators for obtaining a first order estimate of crosstalk noise.
There are also tools such as HSPICE, Ansys/Ansoft Designer,
HyperLynx, MATLAB/Simulink, etc., which allow a more accurate
simulation of FEXT and NEXT, both in time and frequency domains.
A crosstalk simulation of a topology consisting of an aggressor line
and
victim, usually requires terminating both ends of the victim line.crosstalk
Furthermore, in order to ensure validity of the simulation setup and
results, it is recommended that:
I. Vary the coupling length. As the coupled length is increased,
noise should also increase.between
ii. Vary separation between the aggressor and victim lines. As
separation is increased crosstalk noise should diminish (and vice
versa).
iii. Evaluate effectiveness of trace terminations.
Frequently, the ultimate test for assessing the accuracy of a
simulation outcome is to correlate it with measurement results. A
discrepancy
simulated and measured data usually indicates that an improvement ismeasurement
required in the modeling or simulation setup (assuming that the
result is reliable/accurate).
Kind regards,
Abe
On Sun, Jun 18, 2017 at 1:45 AM, Hermann Ruckerbauer <
Hermann.Ruckerbauer@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Hello,helpful.
I guess there is no need for expensive Tools, I guess QUCS should
do the job, and most likely LTspice as well.
Please correct me if I'm wrong in the assumption that these tools
can handle the job.
I would also assume, that you can check FEXT/NEXT with imperfect
termination e. g. on the Victim line where you would see reflected
crosstalk waves.
Hermann
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Am 16.06.2017 um 02:33 schrieb Aakash Gupta:
Hello Experts,to
I am studying cross talk and I see many resources online showing
the profile of NEXT and FEXT for a step signal (rising edge
only). I totally get that.
I want to know what is the cross talk profile for a pulse
(rising and falling edge). I have some picture in my mind but I
cannot afford tools
simulate and verify my intuition.
If some has them simulated or could explain me. It will be very
Thanks
Aakash.
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