Thanks for all your responses... I simulated and have some better
understanding now.
I also noticed the following behavior.
I see a dip in Insertion loss of my aggressor when I have FEXT.
Why don't I see a dip in insertion loss when there is only NEXT and no FEXT?
Is it because magnitude of NEXT (iC - iL) is less than FEXT (iC + iL)?
On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 8:12 PM, Mike <bmgman@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Tom,
I think the original query under this heading was from an entry-level
person trying to intuitively grasp the crosstalk mechanism and
waveforms. Hence my suggestion to consider the victim line ideally
terminated. Unless you have a well-tutored intuition, it is hard to
consider the superposition of crosstalk from both edges and the
reflections that are usually present on the victim line. A simulation
can handle it all, but often fails to provide the insight needed by a
beginner.
In most practical cases, the victim line should be terminated as in the
application, so that the totality of the crosstalk and reflections
caused by it may be evaluated.
Regards to all.
Mike Brown
ex Tandem/Compaq/HP
- - - - -
On 06/19/2017 07:12 PM, Tom Dagostino wrote:
Aubreyvictim
Nice to hear from you, haven't see you much these past few years.
Agree, an open is an termination, so is a short. My first statement, "
terminated as they are on the DUT" is the real answer.
The second statement " there is no reason to terminate the victim in the
simulation" should have read " there is no reason to terminate the
differently in the simulation".that
From the context of the statement it was implied (at least in my head)
a Zo termination should be applied to each end of the victim. I was justapplied
trying to say not to add anything, just use what the DUT has in its
configuration.On
Regards,
Tom Dagostino
971-279-5325
tom@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Teraspeed Labs
9999 SW Wilshire Street
Suite 102
Portland, OR 97225
-----Original Message-----
From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Behalf Of Aubrey Sparkmannets
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 4:54 PM
To: tom@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: riaziabe@xxxxxxxxx; Hermann.Ruckerbauer@xxxxxxxxxxxxx;
aakash6164@xxxxxxxxx; si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: NEXT and FEXT Profile for a Pulse
Tom,
I agree with your comment, "any simulation should have the ends of the
terminated as they are on the DUT of interest." But your comment aboutEven if
unterminated line? Every useful line has a termination of some kind,
it's just the input capacitance of the receiver. Often there are viaswhich
can really add to the crosstalk.wrote:
Aubrey
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 19, 2017, at 5:14 PM, Tom Dagostino <tom@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
------------------------------------------------------------------
Abe
Your comment : " A crosstalk simulation of a topology consisting of an
aggressor line and a victim, usually requires terminating both ends of
the victim line."
I think should read more along the lines of "any simulation should
have the ends of the nets terminated as they are on the DUT of
interest." If the victim is a source only terminated line there is no
reason to terminate the victim in the simulation.
Thoughts?
Tom Dagostino
971-279-5325
tom@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Teraspeed Labs
9999 SW Wilshire Street
Suite 102
Portland, OR 97225
-----Original Message-----
From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Abe Riazi
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 2:48 PM
To: Hermann.Ruckerbauer@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: aakash6164@xxxxxxxxx; si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: NEXT and FEXT Profile for a Pulse
Hi,
Since crosstalk is such an important topic in field of signal
integrity, numerous tools and methodologies have been developed for
analysis of crosstalk effects.
For instance, there exist rules of thumb, mathematical equations and
calculators for obtaining a first order estimate of crosstalk noise.
There are also tools such as HSPICE, Ansys/Ansoft Designer, HyperLynx,
To unsubscribe from si-list:
si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field
or to administer your membership from a web page, go to:
//www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list
For help:
si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field
List forum is accessible at:
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list
List archives are viewable at:
//www.freelists.org/archives/si-list
Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at:
http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu
------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe from si-list:
si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field
or to administer your membership from a web page, go to:
//www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list
For help:
si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field
List forum is accessible at:
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list
List archives are viewable at:
//www.freelists.org/archives/si-list
Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at:
http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu
--
I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice!
And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no
virtue!
------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe from si-list:
si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field
or to administer your membership from a web page, go to:
//www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list
For help:
si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field
List forum is accessible at:
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list
List archives are viewable at:
//www.freelists.org/archives/si-list
Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at:
http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu
