Celine, Thanks,=20 I agree with what you said about S, Smm and Z. Is the conversion from S to Z linear? No, even for a simple network. I think this is the problem, not as simple as I thought.=20 Best regards, Mick -----Original Message----- From: Xilei Liu [mailto:xileil@xxxxxxxxxxx]=20 Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2006 7:29 PM To: Zhou, Xingling (Mick); scott@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Cc: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: RE: [SI-LIST] Re: Mixed-mode impedance matrix Mick, The S-parameters describe the energy conservation, which depends on the reference impedance; and the Z-impedance describe the relationship between voltage and current, which is the nature of the structure. Hence, I think no matter what mode it is, either d/c, even/odd, as the definitions are clear, the conversions can be derived from the input power, voltage, current, and the reference impedance. In another word, the basic relationships such as S11=3DV-/V+|a2=3D0 and Z=3DV/I are = always true. Perhaps the following papers are worthy of reading : "B. Noureddine and B.K Ammar. Frequency- and time-domain analyses of nonuniform lossy coupled transmission lines with linear and nonlinear termina- tions. IEEE Transactions on Microwave Theory and Techniques, 2000" "J.E. Schutt-Aine and R. Mittra. Scattering parameter transient analysis of transmission lines loaded with nonlinear terminations. IEEE Transactions on Microwave Theory and Techniques, 1988" Celine >From: "Zhou, Xingling (Mick)" <xlzhou@xxxxxxxxx> >Reply-To: xlzhou@xxxxxxxxx >To: "Scott McMorrow" <scott@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> >CC: <si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> >Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Mixed-mode impedance matrix >Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 16:05:09 -0400 > > Scott, >Thanks for your advice.=3D20 >However, as I asked, does this mathematical operation tell us anything? >For example, can we even say, >Vdd=3D3DZss*Idd? By looking into the mixed mode S-matrix, I doult the=20 >equation is true in general. If so, is it meaningful by doing the math? >And how can we apply it to designs? > >Mick > >-----Original Message----- >From: Scott McMorrow [mailto:scott@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]=3D20 >Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2006 3:30 PM >To: Zhou, Xingling (Mick) >Cc: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >Subject: Re: [SI-LIST] Mixed-mode impedance matrix > >Mick > >If you want pure differential Z then all you need to do is to convert=20 >the mixed mode S-parameters from the differential/differential quadrant >to a Z matrix. > > >Scott > >Scott McMorrow >Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC >121 North River Drive >Narragansett, RI 02882 >(401) 284-1827 Business >(401) 284-1840 Fax > >http://www.teraspeed.com > >Teraspeed(r) is the registered service mark of Teraspeed Consulting=20 >Group LLC > > > >Zhou, Xingling (Mick) wrote: > > Hi,gurus, > > > > I was asked to simulate differential Z. It was obviously motivated=20 > > by=3D20 mixed mode S parameter theory. So strictly speaking, I need = to > > convert > > > mixed-mode S to Z. I remember somebody asked the same question=20 > > last=3D20 year. > > As we know, the mixed-mode S parameter theory is = well-establised=3D20=20 > > (generalized by Andrea Ferrero in 2005). However, I don't know=20 > > any=3D20 mixed mode Z.=3D3D20 > > > > 1. Some engineers do the so-called pure mode conversion, either=20 > > diff=3D20 or common modes. If so, what do we know about the c-d/d-c=20 > > mode >conversion? > > Something is missing here? Of course, mathematically you can do it. > > 2. Is it possible or meaningful to define the mixed-mode Z? We need=20 > > a=3D20 reference impedance to do any S-Z converison, what is it for=20 > > the d-c=3D20 part? > > > > What is the latest development in theory other than some = personal=3D20 > > practices? I mean we need a solid foundation to do it. Any literature? > > > I think if the conversion can be defined, we must convert the whole=20 > > S=3D20 into Z, not piece by piece (so-called pure mode conversion).=20 > > Otherwise > > > the information is incomplete? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Mick > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > To unsubscribe from si-list: > > si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject=20 > > field > > > > or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: > > //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list > > > > For help: > > si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field > > > > List FAQ wiki page is located at: > > http://si-list.org/wiki/wiki.pl?Si-List_FAQ > > > > List technical documents are available at: > > http://www.si-list.org > > > > List archives are viewable at: =3D20 > > //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list > > or at our remote archives: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages > > Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: > > http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu > > =3D20 > > > > =3D20 >------------------------------------------------------------------ >To unsubscribe from si-list: >si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field > >or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: >//www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list > >For help: >si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field > >List FAQ wiki page is located at: > http://si-list.org/wiki/wiki.pl?Si-List_FAQ > >List technical documents are available at: > http://www.si-list.org > >List archives are viewable at: > //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list >or at our remote archives: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages >Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: > http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ To unsubscribe from si-list: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list For help: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field List FAQ wiki page is located at: http://si-list.org/wiki/wiki.pl?Si-List_FAQ List technical documents are available at: http://www.si-list.org List archives are viewable at: //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list or at our remote archives: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu