[SI-LIST] Re: Mixed-mode impedance matrix
- From: "Xilei Liu" <xileil@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: xlzhou@xxxxxxxxx, scott@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 23:29:19 +0000
Mick,
The S-parameters describe the energy conservation, which depends on the
reference impedance; and the Z-impedance describe the relationship between
voltage and current, which is the nature of the structure. Hence, I think
no matter what mode it is, either d/c, even/odd, as the definitions are
clear, the conversions can be derived from the input power, voltage,
current, and the reference impedance. In another word, the basic
relationships such as S11=V-/V+|a2=0 and Z=V/I are always true. Perhaps the
following papers are worthy of reading :
"B. Noureddine and B.K Ammar. Frequency- and time-domain analyses of
nonuniform lossy coupled transmission lines with linear and nonlinear
termina-
tions. IEEE Transactions on Microwave Theory and Techniques, 2000"
"J.E. Schutt-Aine and R. Mittra. Scattering parameter transient analysis of
transmission lines loaded with nonlinear terminations. IEEE Transactions on
Microwave Theory and Techniques, 1988"
Celine
>From: "Zhou, Xingling (Mick)" <xlzhou@xxxxxxxxx>
>Reply-To: xlzhou@xxxxxxxxx
>To: "Scott McMorrow" <scott@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>CC: <si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Mixed-mode impedance matrix
>Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 16:05:09 -0400
>
> Scott,
>Thanks for your advice.=20
>However, as I asked, does this mathematical operation tell us anything?
>For example, can we even say,
>Vdd=3DZss*Idd? By looking into the mixed mode S-matrix, I doult the
>equation is true in general. If so, is it meaningful by doing the math?
>And how can we apply it to designs?
>
>Mick
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Scott McMorrow [mailto:scott@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]=20
>Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2006 3:30 PM
>To: Zhou, Xingling (Mick)
>Cc: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: Re: [SI-LIST] Mixed-mode impedance matrix
>
>Mick
>
>If you want pure differential Z then all you need to do is to convert
>the mixed mode S-parameters from the differential/differential quadrant
>to a Z matrix.
>
>
>Scott
>
>Scott McMorrow
>Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC
>121 North River Drive
>Narragansett, RI 02882
>(401) 284-1827 Business
>(401) 284-1840 Fax
>
>http://www.teraspeed.com
>
>Teraspeed(r) is the registered service mark of Teraspeed Consulting
>Group LLC
>
>
>
>Zhou, Xingling (Mick) wrote:
> > Hi,gurus,
> >
> > I was asked to simulate differential Z. It was obviously motivated by=20
> > mixed mode S parameter theory. So strictly speaking, I need to convert
>
> > mixed-mode S to Z. I remember somebody asked the same question last=20
> > year.
> > As we know, the mixed-mode S parameter theory is well-establised=20
> > (generalized by Andrea Ferrero in 2005). However, I don't know any=20
> > mixed mode Z.=3D20
> >
> > 1. Some engineers do the so-called pure mode conversion, either diff=20
> > or common modes. If so, what do we know about the c-d/d-c mode
>conversion?
> > Something is missing here? Of course, mathematically you can do it.
> > 2. Is it possible or meaningful to define the mixed-mode Z? We need a=20
> > reference impedance to do any S-Z converison, what is it for the d-c=20
> > part?
> >
> > What is the latest development in theory other than some personal=20
> > practices? I mean we need a solid foundation to do it. Any literature?
>
> > I think if the conversion can be defined, we must convert the whole S=20
> > into Z, not piece by piece (so-called pure mode conversion). Otherwise
>
> > the information is incomplete?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Mick
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