Hi Dave, Speaking of Tx min vtg measurement interval, although the Table 4 does not say the interval for Gen1i/m, Clause 6.4.2.1 explains how to measure the min amplitude and it says the measurement interval is in [0.45UI, 0.55UI]. I guess that there should be a note for clarification saying whether the clause applies to both Gen1i/m and Gen2i/m or not. And, SATA II Clause 6.4.4(page 117) states 'The minimum amplitude value is measured 0.5UI after a reference clock edge' for Tx amplitude not specifying Gen*i or Gen*m or Gen*x, which may also need some clarification. Regards, TK Dave Instone wrote: > Hi TK, > according to the SATA II spec Table 4, for Gen1i and Gen1m there is > no Tx minimum Voltage measurement interval specified, in fact there are > many holes in that table for 1i and 1m and my interpretation of 6.1.1 > of SATA II is that it states, somewhat unclearly, that the existing SATA > 1 spec applies to these variants. SATA 1.0a does show an eye although > it states ' The EYE is more of a qualitative measurement than a > spec.........Nonetheless this method is useful and easy to set up in the > lab.' > > Regards > Dave Instone > T.K. Jeon wrote: > > >>Hello Michael, >> >>I'm not sure if you make measurements on SATA 1.0 or SATA II. But, >>SATA II specifies 'min/max amplitude', but not the eye opening. >>Therefore, there is no eye mask specified in the standard. I'm saying >>SATA II because I guess it's the latest spec. >> >>On SATA II, the min amplitude measurement is based on statistical >>distributions from n samples collected between 0.45UI and 0.55UI using >>three different patterns, which are HFTP(high frequency pattern), >>MFTP(middle freq. pattern) and LBP(lone bit pattern). >> >>Regards, >>TK >> >>Dave Instone wrote: >> >> >>>Dear Michael, >>> The question of where to position the eye has been the subject of >>>many many discussions in Fibre Channel (which also uses 8b10b)and >>>also I suspect in SATA as a lot of the work of the Fibre Channel >>>jitter methodology appears in the SATA spec. As yet no single answer >>>has been decided. Essentially it depends on how the clock recovery >>>circuit centers itself. The majority view is that you determine the >>>mean of the crossing and place the mask such that 0 UI is on the >>>mean, this will be correct for mean following CRCs. However if the >>>jitter distribution is skewed this can result in a lot of margin in >>>one direction, and much less in the other, there are also >>>oversampling type SERDES which may center themselves differently and >>>there are also SERDES which used undisclosed methods of >>>'compensating' for skewed distributions. To be safe you should use >>>the mean of the crossing to position the mask. >>> Regarding your particular violations you don't say if you are >>>looking at the Rx end or the Tx end. If at the Rx end it seems to me >>>that your link has too much HF loss, alternatively the TX risetime >>>could be too slow and/or its amplitude too low. >>>Regards >>>Dave Instone >>> >>>Michael.Kurten@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>>Hello all, >>>> >>>>I have a question with regard to the minimum eye opening. I'm examining >>>>an SATA link which has 8b10b encoding. The measured eye opening does >>>>not >>>>exhibit a lot of jitter. Therefore the double trapezoid, describing the >>>>minimum eye opening, can be shifted along the time axis. The eye height >>>>instead violates massively the minimum eye opening if the minimum >>>>eye is >>>>centered or placed at the left corner of the measured eye. Shifting the >>>>minimum eye opening to the right corner results in an only slightly >>>>violated minimum eye opening.=20 >>>>To date my understanding is that if the minimum eye opening can be >>>>placed anywhere along the time axis and not violating the eye opening >>>>the link will work fine. Otherwise the minimum eye opening would not be >>>>the minimum eye opening. But now I am looking for a more hardware >>>>oriented explanation of this matter. >>>>Any help is highly appreciated. >>>> >>>>Kind regards >>>>Michael Kurten >>>>------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>To unsubscribe from si-list: >>>>si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field >>>> >>>>or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: >>>>//www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list >>>> >>>>For help: >>>>si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field >>>> >>>>List FAQ wiki page is located at: >>>> http://si-list.org/wiki/wiki.pl?Si-List_FAQ >>>> >>>>List technical documents are available at: >>>> http://www.si-list.org >>>> >>>>List archives are viewable at: >>>>//www.freelists.org/archives/si-list >>>>or at our remote archives: >>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages >>>>Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: >>>> http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>>------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>To unsubscribe from si-list: >>>si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field >>> >>>or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: >>>//www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list >>> >>>For help: >>>si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field >>> >>>List FAQ wiki page is located at: >>> http://si-list.org/wiki/wiki.pl?Si-List_FAQ >>> >>>List technical documents are available at: >>> http://www.si-list.org >>> >>>List archives are viewable at: >>>//www.freelists.org/archives/si-list >>>or at our remote archives: >>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages >>>Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: >>> http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > To unsubscribe from si-list: > si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field > > or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: > //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list > > For help: > si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field > > List FAQ wiki page is located at: > http://si-list.org/wiki/wiki.pl?Si-List_FAQ > > List technical documents are available at: > http://www.si-list.org > > List archives are viewable at: > //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list > or at our remote archives: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages > Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: > http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ To unsubscribe from si-list: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list For help: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field List FAQ wiki page is located at: http://si-list.org/wiki/wiki.pl?Si-List_FAQ List technical documents are available at: http://www.si-list.org List archives are viewable at: //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list or at our remote archives: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu