Hung,
You may find my most recent paper on my web site and slide presentation titled
"PCB Interconnect Modeling Demystified" presented at DesignCon 2019 helpful.
http://lamsimenterprises.com/Awards_and_Publications.html ;
Using my Cannonball model, in conjunction with the Huray model, I show how it
can be applied to popular EDA tools. Some EDA tools have already included the
Cannonball model within the tool so all that is needed is Rz parameter from
foil mfr data sheet. I also describe how to adjust Dk from laminate supplier's
data sheet due to copper roughness.
Regards,
Bert Simonovich
Signal/Power Integrity Practitioner | Backplane Specialist | Founder
LAMSIM Enterprises Inc.
“Innovative Signal Integrity and Backplane Solutions”
Email: lsimonovich @ lamsimenterprises.com
Phone: +1 613 836 7569
Cell: +1 613 795 5895
Web Site: http://lamsimenterprises.com/
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-----Original Message-----
From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On ;
Behalf Of Bill Hargin
Sent: 14-Mar-19 1:09 AM
To: hungdn.hcmut@xxxxxxxxx; shlepnev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Megtron6 vs. Megtron 7 vs. Isola MT40
Hi Hung:
It is a bit confusing, in fact, but you can usually get an Rz # (um) from your
fabricator.
ANSYS includes support for GroisseSurfaceRoughness = Rrms = Hrms = Rz/(2 x
sqrt[3])
ANSYS also includes support for Hall-Huray ... We handle these conversion
options in our software.
Bill Hargin
Director of Everything
Z-zero ? Innovative PCB Stackup Design ? www.z-zero.com
billh@xxxxxxxxxx ? 425-301-4425 ? Skype: bill.hargin
-----Original Message-----
From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of
Hung Dang
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2019 7:25 PM
To: shlepnev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Megtron6 vs. Megtron 7 vs. Isola MT40
Dear Yuriy,
As you said: "The foil manufacturers may provide some mechanical data that are
not relevant to the electrical behavior of copper"
I'm extracting 25Gbps differential traces by ANSYS HFSS, I'm confused how to
choose the suitable roughness model of traces.
What are the parameters or specification which we can base on that? I need to
cover the worst case of losses due to surface roughness.
Thanks.
Và o Th 5, 14 thg 3, 2019 vaÌ€o luÌc 06:49 Yuriy Shlepnev <
shlepnev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> đã viết:
Hi Dan,
Meg6 was used in the analysis to measurement validation project EvR-1
- the results were reported last year at DesignCon 2018 - see #2018_01
and
#2018_07 at http://www.simberian.com/AppNotes.php Complete solutions ;
for the material model identification and automation scripts for that
project are available on request.
Meg7 was extensively studied in another project with the results
reported at DesignCon 2019 - see #2019_01 at
http://www.simberian.com/AppNotes.php The goal in this project was to ;
build statistical models for dielectric itself and for the conductor
roughness.
Note, that in both cases the identified Dk and Df were close to the
data provided by manufacturer. However, the actual traces exhibited
much larger losses due to the conductor surface roughness. The board
manufacturers in both studies did not have any numbers for the
electrical characterization of the copper roughness. The foil
manufacturers may provide some mechanical data that are not relevant
to the electrical behavior of copper. In addition, the copper is also
treated by the board manufacturer - there were no data on this process
either. Any guess in such case would be better than nothing, but if
you want accurate characterization and comparison, you have to do the
model identification with the measurements.
Best regards,
Yuriy
Yuriy Shlepnev, Ph.D.
President, Simberian Inc.
2629 Townsgate Rd., Suite #235, Westlake Village, CA 91361, USA Office
+1-702-876-2882; Fax +1-702-482-7903 Cell +1-206-409-2368; Virtual
+1-408-627-7706
Skype: shlepnev
www.simberian.com
Simbeor - Accurate, Productive and Cost-Effective Electromagnetic
Signal Integrity Software to Design Predictable Interconnects!
2010 and 2011 DesignVision Award Winner, 2015 Best In Design&Test
Finalist
-----Original Message-----
From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On
Behalf Of Dan Bostan (Redacted sender "dbostan" for DMARC)
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2019 11:27 AM
To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [SI-LIST] Megtron6 vs. Megtron 7 vs. Isola MT40
Does anyone have direct experience with all of those materials, for
designs above 32Gbaud?I used successfully Megtron6 in the past, but I
am looking for alternatives.Any pricing information would be
appreciated, as well.Cheers,Dan Bostan
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