[SI-LIST] Re: Measurement/Simulation Correlation
- From: Ravinder.Ajmani@xxxxxxxx
- To: Istvan Novak <istvan.novak@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2012 17:21:21 -0700
Hi Istvan,
Thanks for your response. I am using microprobes for my measurements, and
the VNA set up is calibrated up to the tip of microprobe. I am using same
pads for the probe placement for the simulation. So I believe my
simulation and measurement setups are identical.
Regards
Ravinder Ajmani
HGST, a Western Digital company
ravinder.ajmani@xxxxxxxx
Istvan Novak <istvan.novak@xxxxxxxxxxx>
06/08/2012 04:46 PM
To
Ravinder.Ajmani@xxxxxxxx
cc
"si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject
Re: [SI-LIST] Re: Measurement/Simulation Correlation
Have you made sure that the discontinuities at the connection to the DUT
are removed?
Regards,
Istvan Novak
Oracle
On 6/8/2012 7:39 PM, Ravinder.Ajmani@xxxxxxxx wrote:
> Hi Antonis,
> Thanks for your response. I have not measured the material properties.
> The Fab has provided me the Dk and loss tangent values of the material
> used by them. I also adjusted the PCB trace geometry and Dk value in
the
> design database as per the measured stackup and trace parameters and
> impedance. Next I tweaked the loss tangent to bring the simulation
> results closer to the measurement results, but it does not help much. I
> also don't see any passivity or causality issue with the simulation or
the
> measurement.
>
>
> Regards
> Ravinder Ajmani
> HGST, a Western Digital company
> ravinder.ajmani@xxxxxxxx
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "Antonis Orphanou"<orphanou@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> 06/08/2012 04:17 PM
>
> To
> "Ravinder.Ajmani@xxxxxxxx"<Ravinder.Ajmani@xxxxxxxx>,
> "si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx"<si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> cc
>
> Subject
> RE: [SI-LIST] Measurement/Simulation Correlation
>
>
>
>
>
>
> One important parameter in correlating insertion loss at higher
> frequencies using simulation tools is material passivity and material
> representation.
> The frequency dependency of your material can affect your correlation.
> Usually though the standard material representation in the simulation
> tools is consistent with Kramers-Kronig passivity and causality
> requirements but the values for er and loss tangent is the big question.
> In addition I agree with you that roughness will also affect the
> correlation as well at higher frequencies. If you have measured material
> properties you can use those??
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> On Behalf Of Ravinder.Ajmani@xxxxxxxx
> Sent: Friday, June 08, 2012 3:59 PM
> To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [SI-LIST] Measurement/Simulation Correlation
>
> Hi Experts,
> I have built a simple test board for correlating the simulated
S-Parameter
> data (extracted using Ansoft SIwave) with VNA measurements. I get good
> Insertion Loss correlation up to 12 GHz, buy beyond that the measured
> Insertion Loss drops more significantly than the simulated data. I have
> tried tweaking the dielectric loss, but it does not help much. Could
this
> added loss be due to surface roughness, which I have not taken in to
> account, or the tool limitation. I do get better correlation with the
> Mixed-Mode Insertion Loss (within 2 dB up to 20 GHz).
>
> I may add that my colleague generated S-parameter data on the same
design
> using Agilent Momentum, which correlates well up to 16 GHz, but also
shows
> resonances that don't show up in the measurements. It also correlates
> well with Mixed-Mode Insertion Loss.
>
> I will appreciate any lead in to this.
>
> Thanks.
>
>
> Regards
> Ravinder Ajmani
> HGST, a Western Digital company
> ravinder.ajmani@xxxxxxxx
>
>
>
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