[SI-LIST] Re: Measurement/Simulation Correlation
- From: Ravinder.Ajmani@xxxxxxxx
- To: "Antonis Orphanou" <orphanou@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2012 16:39:55 -0700
Hi Antonis,
Thanks for your response. I have not measured the material properties.
The Fab has provided me the Dk and loss tangent values of the material
used by them. I also adjusted the PCB trace geometry and Dk value in the
design database as per the measured stackup and trace parameters and
impedance. Next I tweaked the loss tangent to bring the simulation
results closer to the measurement results, but it does not help much. I
also don't see any passivity or causality issue with the simulation or the
measurement.
Regards
Ravinder Ajmani
HGST, a Western Digital company
ravinder.ajmani@xxxxxxxx
"Antonis Orphanou" <orphanou@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
06/08/2012 04:17 PM
To
"Ravinder.Ajmani@xxxxxxxx" <Ravinder.Ajmani@xxxxxxxx>,
"si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
cc
Subject
RE: [SI-LIST] Measurement/Simulation Correlation
One important parameter in correlating insertion loss at higher
frequencies using simulation tools is material passivity and material
representation.
The frequency dependency of your material can affect your correlation.
Usually though the standard material representation in the simulation
tools is consistent with Kramers-Kronig passivity and causality
requirements but the values for er and loss tangent is the big question.
In addition I agree with you that roughness will also affect the
correlation as well at higher frequencies. If you have measured material
properties you can use those??
-----Original Message-----
From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Ravinder.Ajmani@xxxxxxxx
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2012 3:59 PM
To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [SI-LIST] Measurement/Simulation Correlation
Hi Experts,
I have built a simple test board for correlating the simulated S-Parameter
data (extracted using Ansoft SIwave) with VNA measurements. I get good
Insertion Loss correlation up to 12 GHz, buy beyond that the measured
Insertion Loss drops more significantly than the simulated data. I have
tried tweaking the dielectric loss, but it does not help much. Could this
added loss be due to surface roughness, which I have not taken in to
account, or the tool limitation. I do get better correlation with the
Mixed-Mode Insertion Loss (within 2 dB up to 20 GHz).
I may add that my colleague generated S-parameter data on the same design
using Agilent Momentum, which correlates well up to 16 GHz, but also shows
resonances that don't show up in the measurements. It also correlates
well with Mixed-Mode Insertion Loss.
I will appreciate any lead in to this.
Thanks.
Regards
Ravinder Ajmani
HGST, a Western Digital company
ravinder.ajmani@xxxxxxxx
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