[SI-LIST] Re: Low inductance chip capacitor(LICC), IDC
- From: Istvan Novak - Board Design Technology <inovak@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: mark.alexander@xxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 20:27:55 -0400 (EDT)
Mark,
Similar note applies: if you choose a connection geometry that does not swamp
the inductance, interdigitated capacitors can offer lower overall inductance.
Some of our data was published last year at EPEP2001, an extended version of
the
conference presentation will appear in the next issue of IEEE Tr Advanced
Packaging. We also plan to present much more data at DesignCon2003.
Thanks
Istvan
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Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 18:04:20 -0600
From: "Mark Alexander" <mark.alexander@xxxxxxxxxx>
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To: Krina.Kothari@xxxxxxx
Cc: leeritchey@xxxxxxxxxxxxx, Perry.Qu@xxxxxxxxxxx,
Larry.Smith@xxxxxxx,
si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Low inductance chip capacitor(LICC), IDC
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All,
Has anyone had any experience with the interdigitated or IDC caps?
These seem to
have flux cancellation working in their favor. Is it enough to be
worthwhile? Has
anyone done any studies on IDC's versus LICC's?
thanks,
marka
Krina Kothari wrote:
> Michael,
>
> I have seen that reverse geometry capacitors have almost one third
inductance
> as compared to standard geometry caps(0603). So it is advisable to
mount them
> on PCB structures with low mounting inductance just as larry
mentioned.
>
> Reverse Geometry caps are obtained from murata ranging from 2.2nf to
2.2uf and
> to my knowledge TDK has also started supplying reverse geometry caps.
>
> thanks,
> krina Kothari
> Sun Microsystems
>
> > Delivered-To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 14:04:31 -0700 (PDT)
> > From: Larry Smith <Larry.Smith@xxxxxxx>
> > Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Low inductance chip capacitor(LICC)
> > To: leeritchey@xxxxxxxxxxxxx, Perry.Qu@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > Cc: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
> > X-archive-position: 4341
> > X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0
> > X-original-sender: Larry.Smith@xxxxxxx
> > X-list: si-list
> >
> >
> > Hmmm. This is a very interesting thread. We have also had trouble
> > getting samples of reverse geometry (0306) capacitors from the
supplier
> > in question. We have been able to obtain samples of these same
caps
from
> > Murata, I suggest you try them.
> >
> > Low inductance, reverse geometry capacitors are only useful if you
can
> > get the mounting inductance (PCB structures) down less than the
> > inductance of the RG cap. With careful design, we have been able to
> > achieve PCB mounting inductance of about 200 pH, including the pads,
> > vias and PCB power planes. At that level, RG caps make a lot of
> > sense.
> >
> > I am hoping that the rest of the industry comes to see the value of
RG
> > caps so that there will be a ready supply of them.
> >
> > regards,
> > Larry Smith
> > Sun Microsystems.
> >
> > > Delivered-To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > Date: 18 Oct 2002 16:39:13 -0400
> > > From: "Perry Qu" <Perry.Qu@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > To: "Ritchey Lee" <leeritchey@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > Cc: "si-list" <si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > X-Accept-Language: en
> > > MIME-Version: 1.0
> > > Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Low inductance chip capacitor(LICC)
> > > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
> > > X-archive-position: 4340
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> > > X-original-sender: Perry.Qu@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > > X-list: si-list
> > >
> > >
> > > Lee:
> > >
> > > Thanks for your comment. That's what I'm thinking of. It seems
that the
> > > inductance coming from vias/stubs associated with cap is the major
> contributor
> > > of ESL, compared with the portion from cap packaging.
> > >
> > > BTW, when you say "0306" you mean "0603", right ? Because "0306"
sounds like
> > > one type of LICC, where they align terminals along the long side
of cap to
> > > increase mutual coupling between terminals.
> > >
> > > Regards
> > >
> > > Perry
> > >
> > > Ritchey Lee wrote:
> > >
> > > > Perry,
> > > >
> > > > By the time you add in the mounting inductance, the reduction in
> inductance
> > > > that the low inductance capacitor provides is lost. You are
better off us
> > > > in 0306 capacitors and relying on the plane capacitance of the
PCB to
> > > > provide for the high frequencies.
> > > >
> > > > Lee
> > > >
> > > > Perry Qu wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi, everyone:
> > > > >
> > > > > I would like to know if anyone used low inductance capacitor
such as the
> > > > > one listed on AVX web site:
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.avxcorp.com/docs/Catalogs/licc.pdf
> > > > >
> > > > > Does it really help to bring down the total ESL of cap ? Any
associated
> > > > > problems that we should watch out ?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks
> > > > >
> > > > > Perry
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Perry Qu
> > > > >
> > > > > Product Integrity | 600 March Road
> > > > > Alcatel Canada | Ottawa, ON K2K 2E6, Canada
> > > > >
> > > > > DID: (613) 7846720 | FAX: (613) 5993642
> > > > >
> > > > >
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> > > --
> > > Perry Qu
> > >
> > > Product Integrity | 600 March Road
> > > Alcatel Canada | Ottawa, ON K2K 2E6, Canada
> > >
> > > DID: (613) 7846720 | FAX: (613) 5993642
> > >
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>
> krina kothari
> Engineer
> 650 786 9365/x89365
> sun microsystems
>
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Istvan Novak Sun Microsystems, Inc.
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