[SI-LIST] Re: Is this kind of software available in the market?
- From: "Hassan O. Ali" <hassan@xxxxxxxx>
- To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 09:48:13 -0400 (EDT)
Dan,
What do you mean by "many"? I've never seen any field-solver that can
faithfully
generate, broadband, frequency-dependent, per-unit RLGC parameters of a lossy,
transmission line structure with an arbitrary number of conductors/ports, from
a multi-
port S-parameter data. In fact I'm looking for it as well. If you know of any,
please
let me know.
With ADS, just as Hao said, you can generate an equivalent circuit that can
give rise to
approximately same S-parameters but there are various limitations. Your
S-parameters
have to be well-behaved; must be narrowband - otherwise too difficult to match
magnitude
and phase over the entire frequency range; the equivalent circuit will have
some
elements (transmission lines and discretes) but you won't easily get ditributed
per-unit
RLGC parameters (at least I've not yet figured out how to get them accurately).
As I said, I've been struggling with this problem for quite a while now. It's
easy with
a single-conductor transmission line but very difficult for more than one
conductor.
There is a very interesting paper (referenced below) that apparently does
provide a
methodology for a multiconductor transmission line, but my Math skills are too
rusty to
be able to follow it through. Maybe someone in this list can read it and
provide a free
tool for the rest of us to use. The paper is:
A. J. Gruodis and C. S. Chang, "Coupled Lossy Transmission Line
Characterization and
Simulation", IBM Journal of Reasearch and Development, vol. 25, no. 1, January
1981.
Check out the "Data analysis method 2" on page 27. The method involves finding
an
inverse of an eigenvector matrix - that just blows me away!
You can get the paper from the IBM Journal repository:
http://domino.research.ibm.com/tchjr/journalindex.nsf/Home?OpenForm
There is also an interesting Ph.D. thesis by Jimmy Shinh-Hwa Wang, University
of
California Santa Cruz, 1995, that covers the same issue and more. I came across
the
thesis while searching the web on the subject, but unfortunately I don't have
the URL
for it - I only have a hardcopy. The thesis is titled: "Transient Analysis of
Coupled
Transmission Lines Characterized with Frequency-Dependent Losses or Measured
Scattering-
Parameter Data and Optimal Design of Self-Damped Interconnects".
By the way, there are tools (mostly 2D field-solvers) that generate RLGC
parameters of
multi-conductor transmission lines, but most of them extract parameters
directly - not
through S-parameters.
Regards.
Hassan.
On Sep 8 , "Swanson, Dan" <Dan.Swanson@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> Hao,
>
> Many of the MoM and FEM field-solvers
> have this capability. I have not used
> it much so can't comment. I am not aware
> of a stand alone program that will do this.
>
> Dan
>
> Dan Swanson EMAIL: d.swanson@xxxxxxxx
> Andrew Corp. PHONE: 978-834-4085
> 37 South Hunt Road FAX: 978-388-7077
> Amesbury, MA 01913
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: haowang@xxxxxxxxxx [mailto:haowang@xxxxxxxxxx]
> > Sent: Friday, September 05, 2003 4:24 PM
> > To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: [SI-LIST] Is this kind of software available in the market?
> >
> >
> > All,
> >
> > Here I have a multi-port system and the S-parameter result of this =
> > system. Is there a software which can generate a network
> > consisting of =
> > L,C,R and transmission lines which can lead to the same S
> > parameter? It =
> > seems that Agilent ADS has this kind of ability. But when I
> > tried a 5 =
> > ports example, it failed.=20
> >
> > Thank you
> > Hao Wang
> > Micron Technology Inc. =20
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