[SI-LIST] Re: Hspice vs. Eldo
- From: "QU Perry" <Perry.Qu@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 13:13:42 -0500
Off topic: I hope there is a better way than writing hspice deck in text
editor as it's error prone when the circuit gets complex and the chance
of getting wrong nodes/connections are high. Some kind of GUI interface
similar to ADS/Ansoft Designer would be nice.
BTW, how many IC vendors are willing to provide Spice model encrypted by
Mentor Eldo as opposed to Synopsys ? Mentor keep telling us that we can
ask for Eldo encrypted model but I suspect not many vendors are willing
to entertain that.
Regards
Perry
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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Perry Qu=20
Design & Qualification, Alcatel-Lucent Canada Inc.
600 March Road, Ottawa ON, K2K 2E6, Canada=20
DID: 613-7846720 Fax: 613-5993642=20
Email: perry.qu@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx=20
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx=20
> [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of=20
> Aubrey_Sparkman@xxxxxxxx
> Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 1:53 PM
> To: fialka113@xxxxxxxxx; scott@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; weirsi@xxxxxxxxxx
> Cc: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Hspice vs. Eldo
>=20
> When Schedules and Time to Market are important, you can=20
> justify the cost even if the tool is used only a few months a=20
> year. When the work load is high and constant, the ease of=20
> use argument gets weaker as you can better benefit from=20
> re-use and scripting and the (re-)learning curve goes away.
> Aubrey Sparkman
> Enterprise Engineering Signal Integrity Team Dell, Inc.
> Aubrey_Sparkman@xxxxxxxx
> (512) 723-3592
> "Discovery consists of seeing what everybody has seen and=20
> thinking what nobody else has thought." - Jonathan Swift=20
>=20
> =20
>=20
> ________________________________
>=20
> From: Julia Nekrylova [mailto:fialka113@xxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 12:35 PM
> To: Sparkman, Aubrey; scott@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; weirsi@xxxxxxxxxx
> Cc: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: [SI-LIST] Re: Hspice vs. Eldo
>=20
>=20
> 2) Depends on how constant your work load is. If it is high and
> constant, then yes, I would agree with you that 50 % more=20
> cost is easily
> justifiable. Btw, Hspice costs 100 % more.
>=20
>=20
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: "Aubrey_Sparkman@xxxxxxxx" <Aubrey_Sparkman@xxxxxxxx>
> To: scott@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; weirsi@xxxxxxxxxx
> Cc: fialka113@xxxxxxxxx; si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Sent: Thursday, November 1, 2007 8:14:00 PM
> Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Hspice vs. Eldo
>=20
> In addition to Steve and Scott's comments, I would like to=20
> add two more
> comments:
> 1) OFTEN, model accuracy is much more important than which=20
> simulator you
> use.
> 2) If you have a choice of simulators, (you don't with=20
> encrypted models)
> how important is ease of use? For instance, if one simulator=20
> costs 50%
> more, but enables you to get 3 times as much done, do you care?
>=20
>=20
> Aubrey Sparkman=3D20
> Enterprise Engineering Signal Integrity Team=3D20
> Dell, Inc.=3D20
> Aubrey_Sparkman@xxxxxxxx=3D20
> (512) 723-3592=3D20
> "Discovery consists of seeing what everybody has seen and=20
> thinking what
> nobody else has thought." - Jonathan Swift
>=20
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx=20
> [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> On Behalf Of Scott McMorrow
> Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 11:32 AM
> To: weirsi@xxxxxxxxxx
> Cc: fialka113@xxxxxxxxx; si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Hspice vs. Eldo
>=20
> I'd agree with Steve. Usually encrypted models is the deal breaker.
> Otherwise, Eldo is technically superior to HSPICE in the handling of
> s-parameters.
>=20
>=20
> Scott McMorrow
> Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC
> 121 North River Drive
> Narragansett, RI 02882
> (401) 284-1827 Business
> (401) 284-1840 Fax
>=20
> http://www.teraspeed.com <http://www.teraspeed.com/>=20
>=20
> Teraspeed(r) is the registered service mark of
> Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC
>=20
>=20
>=20
> steve weir wrote:
> > Julia, Synopsys has two almost unassailable market advantages with
> HSPICE:
> >
> > *A lot of models are supplied only as encrypted HSPICE=20
> models. If you
>=20
> > don't have HSPICE you can't play.
> > *HSPICE is used for silicon sign-off with a number of fabs.
> >
> > If either of the above issues are material to you, then the
> technical=3D20
> > merits of one simulator versus another are moot.
> >
> > Steve
> >
> > Julia Nekrylova wrote:
> > =3D20
> >> Dear SI professionals,
> >> My question is about Eldo vs. Hspice comparisson. With the former
> being roughly 2 times cheaper than the later, I wonder if it offers a
> similar performance. I've heard that Eldo has an improved t-line
> modeling and handles S-parameters in a more advanced fashion. I just
> never had a chance to work with Eldo, but pricewise it's a big
> difference for a small company like ours.
> >>
> >> Thanks again for your help,
> >> Julia Nekrylova
> >>
> >> 74ze Engineering
> >>
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