[SI-LIST] Re: HSPICE W element field solver model
- From: "Mark Alexander" <Mark.Alexander@xxxxxxxxxx>
- To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2001 03:54:18 +0200
Michael,
In the future, please DO NOT send large attachments with your emails. It's
better to put it on a server and give a url in the email, or specify that people
contact you to have it emailed to them directly. Some of us access email
through dialup.
thanks,
mark
"Greim, Michael" wrote:
> Here is something on materials from AMP that
> may prove interesting...
>
> See attached....
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Michael C. Greim Sonus Networks
> mgreim@xxxxxxxxxxxx 978-589-8336
>
> Making the world safe for digital signals everywhere
>
> And all this science I don't understand
> It's just my job six days a week
>
> The time is gone. The email's over
> Thought I'd something more to say......
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Alex Horvath [mailto:alexh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 1:31 PM
> To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: HSPICE W element field solver model
>
> Chris,
> I found your statements below very interesting because we have a consultant
> working for us that's telling us 3 gig on a FR-4 backplane (20") is no big
> deal. I told him I had some concerns based on the chip manufacturers data
> which recommended GETEK or similar. Do any simulators take losses into
> account?
>
> Are there any publications or papers that discuss in more detail the DK and
> loss tan you mentioned below? This is the first time I have worked at
> frequencies where this is a concern.
>
> Thanks, Alex H
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Chris Mesibov
> Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 4:58 AM
> To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: HSPICE W element field solver model
>
> Most PCB fabricators and their lamenate suppliers don't characterize FR4
> above
> 1.5 GHz (i.e. for DK and loss tan). Therefore specifying controlled
> impedance
> lines intended for this bandwidth should be rejected by any fab house worth
> their salt.
> The problem is that the studies of FR4 at frequencies up to 10Ghz show
> dramatic
> changes in loss tan and DK over freq and temp. What this would result in
> for
> digital signals is group delay and rise time degradation. Group delay is
> when
> the fourier components of the waveform propagate down the transmission line
> at
> different rates. The rise time degrades because as the frequency increases,
> so
> does the loss tangent. This has the effect of attenuating the harmonics of
> the
> waveform, thus slowing the rise time.
>
> Hope this sheds some light.
>
> Chris
>
> Alex March wrote:
>
> > Dear SI experts,
> >
> > I would like to ask about your experiences with the
> > W element field solver model in HSPICE. I am trying to
> > make some simulations in the Gigahertz range with FR4
> > material and I am not sure about what value I should
> > use for the conductivity of FR4.
> >
> > Thank you,
> >
> > Alex
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
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>
> --
> Chris Mesibov
> Sr. Hardware Engineer Fujitsu Network Communications, Inc.
> Phone:(845)731-2037 2 Blue Hill Plaza, 6th Floor
> Fax: (845)731-2011 Pearl River, NY 10965
>
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> --------------------------------------------------
> Name: amp_5gig.pdf
> amp_5gig.pdf Type: Acrobat (application/pdf)
> Encoding: base64
>
> Name: amp_high_speed_materials.pdf
> amp_high_speed_materials.pdf Type: Acrobat (application/pdf)
> Encoding: base64
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