Hi All, I think it is a marketing ploy to develop damaging info on a particular tool. Thanks Jim Freeman steve weir wrote: > Julian, I don't think we are dealing with an engineer here at > all. Engineers look for solutions. This guy is clearly looking for > blame. I think our mystery guest is a lawyer trying to develop evidence > for some lawsuit. Never does he ask for work-arounds to any > problems. Never does he ask for alternative programs if SQ is not a good > enough answer. Never does he offer a single case to back up his allegation > that SQ is useless. But what he does do is dance, dance, dance, never > losing sight of his theme: "Give me evidence in the form of expert testimony." > > First he lobs his charges that the product is unusable. Then he feigns a > claim that he wants to be fair. First he claims he is interested in the > tool for his own work. Then later he claims he is researching for a > client. Hmm, he is not the originator, but he feels HE needs to be > anonymous. Right! And the Plutoxin 7 virus kills in ten hours. > > But like a diligent inquisitor our mystery guest always comes back to his > theme: "Give me evidence of a product defect." More importantly, he is > not interested in what any issue might be large or small, specific or > general, only that it can be "reproduced/verified", as in it has > evidentiary value. He implores the timid: "If my obvious duplicity makes > you feel nervous, you can slip your evidence right here under the rock I > just crawled out from under. Just look for the one with the oozing > stench. In the meantime, I will be billing my client $450. per > hour. Thanks for all the fish." > > Don't we have some Cadence people on the reflector? I suggest they forward > our mystery guests posts to their legal dept. > > Regards, > > > Steve. > > At 10:53 AM 11/23/2005 -0500, Julian Ferry wrote: > >>Maybe I'll add something here too. In our SI work, we use simulators like >>SpectraQuest (or whatever its called this week), Hspice, Pspice, Berkeley >>spice, and Eagleware/Agilent; field solvers from Ansoft, CST, Flowmerics, >>and a couple other vendors; and model extraction and simulation software > >>from TDA Systems/Tektronix, and Agilent; and some stuff of our own creation. > >>And I'm probably forgetting a few. >> >>And to be blunt: they all suck! >> >>Every single package has problems and issues that need to be discovered, >>understood, and worked around. And each time there is a new rev, we have to >>go through it all again. >> >>But we accept the fact that we need to use these tools, warts and all, >>because they are the best tools currently available to us. Hopefully, six >>months from now, they'll all be little bit better. >> >>Its very easy to throw stones at the negatives inherent to all packages. >>But, at the end of the day, the benefits outweigh the frustrations, or we >>wouldn't use them at all. >> >>Julian Ferry >>High Speed Engineering Manager >>Samtec, Inc >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On >>Behalf Of Todd Westerhoff (twesterh) >>Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 8:15 AM >>To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: HELP!! SpecctraQuest is GOOD/BAD Tool for Board Level >>Simulation < 400 MT/s??? >> >>Mystery Guy, I'm afraid you've missed the point. All tools have bugs >>and issues - it's just a matter of degree. We're talking about a >>relatively small market that is using some very complex tools. Throw in >>the fact that the problem is constantly getting more complex (speeds go >>up), and it should be common sense that bugs and problems are going to >>be an ongoing issue. As others have said, using these tools requires >>experience and good judgment. >> >>We've seen issues that could be reproduced, and issues that couldn't be >>reproduced - with any tool you care to name. >> >>If you're looking for meaningful input, I suggest you name the >>application you're designing to (for instance, DDR2-SDRAM/533 MT/s) - >>then ask people whether they've been successful with a particular tool >>and if they know of any "gotchas" should be on the lookout for. >> >>Asking "has anyone heard of problems" via an anonymous request just has >>a cloak-and-dagger feel to it. This is engineering, not drama. >> >>Happy Thanksgiving to all who celebrate it, >> >>Todd. =20 >> >> >>Todd Westerhoff >>High Speed Design Group Manager >>Cisco Systems >>1414 Massachusetts Ave - Boxboro, MA - 01719 email:twesterh@xxxxxxxxx >>ph: 978-936-2149 >>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= >>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >>=20 >>"Always do right. >> This will gratify some people and astonish the rest." >>=20 >>- Mark Twain >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] >>On Behalf Of mystery guy >>Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 9:36 PM >>To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: HELP!! SpecctraQuest is GOOD/BAD Tool for Board >>Level Simulation < 400 MT/s??? >> >>Please forgive the anonymous aspect of the request. I do not wish to >>steer the result by way of company name/individual's name, nor do I wish >>to embarrass the originator of the request. This is not an attempt to >>tarnish any tool maker's reputation, and my apologies if the request >>comes across that way. There is no intended assertion that a problem >>exists by way of the request itself. >> =20 >> I am asking the SI experts of the world if anyone has experienced >>issues with SQ that would lead to concern about the results. It may be >>the case that the answer is no and experts have been using this tool >>quite extensively, in which case a strong assertion to this effect would >>be in order. I am not saying that either answer is right or wrong, but >>the request was intended to illicit candid opinions from the experts. >> =20 >> If you have seen an issue that can be reproduced/confirmed, please >>feel free to pass along directly if you wish to remain anonymous about >>this topic. >> =20 >> Thanks for your patience. >> =20 >>Ray Anderson <ray.anderson@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote: >> =20 >>The message posted anonymously to the list earlier today=20 >> =20 >> (deleted) >>Regards, >> >>-Ray Anderson >>(si-list admin) >> >> >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] >>On Behalf Of mystery guy >>Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 2:06 PM >>To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>Subject: [SI-LIST] HELP!! SpecctraQuest is GOOD/BAD Tool for Board Level >>Simulation < 400 MT/s??? >> >>Gurus, >>=3D20 >>I recently heard a fellow say that SpecctraQuest is not an acceptable >>tool for SI simulation ...........=3D20 >> >>(remainder deleted) >> >>------------------------------------------------------------------ >>To unsubscribe from si-list: >>si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field >> >>or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: >>//www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list >> >>For help: >>si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field >> >>List FAQ wiki page is located at: >>http://si-list.org/wiki/wiki.pl?Si-List_FAQ >> >>List technical documents are available at: >>http://www.si-list.org >> >>List archives are viewable at:=20 >>//www.freelists.org/archives/si-list >>or at our remote archives: >>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages >>Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: >>http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu >> >> >> >> =20 >> >> >> =09 >>--------------------------------- >> Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. =20 >> >>------------------------------------------------------------------ >>To unsubscribe from si-list: >>si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field >> >>or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: >>//www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list >> >>For help: >>si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field >> >>List FAQ wiki page is located at: >> http://si-list.org/wiki/wiki.pl?Si-List_FAQ >> >>List technical documents are available at: >> http://www.si-list.org >> >>List archives are viewable at: =20 >> //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list >>or at our remote archives: >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages >>Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: >> http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu >> =20 >>------------------------------------------------------------------ >>To unsubscribe from si-list: >>si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field >> >>or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: >>//www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list >> >>For help: >>si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field >> >>List FAQ wiki page is located at: >> http://si-list.org/wiki/wiki.pl?Si-List_FAQ >> >>List technical documents are available at: >> http://www.si-list.org >> >>List archives are viewable at: >> //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list >>or at our remote archives: >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages >>Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: >> http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu >> >>------------------------------------------------------------------ >>To unsubscribe from si-list: >>si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field >> >>or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: >>//www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list >> >>For help: >>si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field >> >>List FAQ wiki page is located at: >> http://si-list.org/wiki/wiki.pl?Si-List_FAQ >> >>List technical documents are available at: >> http://www.si-list.org >> >>List archives are viewable at: >> //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list >>or at our remote archives: >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages >>Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: >> http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu >> > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > To unsubscribe from si-list: > si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field > > or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: > //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list > > For help: > si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field > > List FAQ wiki page is located at: > http://si-list.org/wiki/wiki.pl?Si-List_FAQ > > List technical documents are available at: > http://www.si-list.org > > List archives are viewable at: > //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list > or at our remote archives: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages > Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: > http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ To unsubscribe from si-list: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list For help: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field List FAQ wiki page is located at: http://si-list.org/wiki/wiki.pl?Si-List_FAQ List technical documents are available at: http://www.si-list.org List archives are viewable at: //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list or at our remote archives: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu