[SI-LIST] Re: HELP!! SpecctraQuest is GOOD/BAD Tool for Boar d Level Simulation < 400 MT/s???
- From: Scott McMorrow <scott@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: julian.ferry@xxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 11:20:47 -0500
I agree with Julian. In addition, I would counsel people to be careful
about disclosing detailed information about any EDA tool on this list,
especially unfavorable information, lest one should run afoul of legal
issues. Generally software license agreeements contain some form of a
non-disclosure.
Scott McMorrow
Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC
121 North River Drive
Narragansett, RI 02882
(401) 284-1827 Business
(401) 284-1840 Fax
http://www.teraspeed.com
Teraspeed® is the registered service mark of
Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC
Julian Ferry wrote:
>Maybe I'll add something here too. In our SI work, we use simulators like
>SpectraQuest (or whatever its called this week), Hspice, Pspice, Berkeley
>spice, and Eagleware/Agilent; field solvers from Ansoft, CST, Flowmerics,
>and a couple other vendors; and model extraction and simulation software
>from TDA Systems/Tektronix, and Agilent; and some stuff of our own creation.
>And I'm probably forgetting a few.
>
>And to be blunt: they all suck!
>
>Every single package has problems and issues that need to be discovered,
>understood, and worked around. And each time there is a new rev, we have to
>go through it all again.
>
>But we accept the fact that we need to use these tools, warts and all,
>because they are the best tools currently available to us. Hopefully, six
>months from now, they'll all be little bit better.
>
>Its very easy to throw stones at the negatives inherent to all packages.
>But, at the end of the day, the benefits outweigh the frustrations, or we
>wouldn't use them at all.
>
>Julian Ferry
>High Speed Engineering Manager
>Samtec, Inc
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
>Behalf Of Todd Westerhoff (twesterh)
>Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 8:15 AM
>To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: HELP!! SpecctraQuest is GOOD/BAD Tool for Board Level
>Simulation < 400 MT/s???
>
>Mystery Guy, I'm afraid you've missed the point. All tools have bugs
>and issues - it's just a matter of degree. We're talking about a
>relatively small market that is using some very complex tools. Throw in
>the fact that the problem is constantly getting more complex (speeds go
>up), and it should be common sense that bugs and problems are going to
>be an ongoing issue. As others have said, using these tools requires
>experience and good judgment.
>
>We've seen issues that could be reproduced, and issues that couldn't be
>reproduced - with any tool you care to name.
>
>If you're looking for meaningful input, I suggest you name the
>application you're designing to (for instance, DDR2-SDRAM/533 MT/s) -
>then ask people whether they've been successful with a particular tool
>and if they know of any "gotchas" should be on the lookout for.
>
>Asking "has anyone heard of problems" via an anonymous request just has
>a cloak-and-dagger feel to it. This is engineering, not drama.
>
>Happy Thanksgiving to all who celebrate it,
>
>Todd. =20
>
>
>Todd Westerhoff
>High Speed Design Group Manager
>Cisco Systems
>1414 Massachusetts Ave - Boxboro, MA - 01719 email:twesterh@xxxxxxxxx
>ph: 978-936-2149
>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>=20
>"Always do right.
> This will gratify some people and astonish the rest."
>=20
>- Mark Twain
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
>On Behalf Of mystery guy
>Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 9:36 PM
>To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: HELP!! SpecctraQuest is GOOD/BAD Tool for Board
>Level Simulation < 400 MT/s???
>
>Please forgive the anonymous aspect of the request. I do not wish to
>steer the result by way of company name/individual's name, nor do I wish
>to embarrass the originator of the request. This is not an attempt to
>tarnish any tool maker's reputation, and my apologies if the request
>comes across that way. There is no intended assertion that a problem
>exists by way of the request itself.
> =20
> I am asking the SI experts of the world if anyone has experienced
>issues with SQ that would lead to concern about the results. It may be
>the case that the answer is no and experts have been using this tool
>quite extensively, in which case a strong assertion to this effect would
>be in order. I am not saying that either answer is right or wrong, but
>the request was intended to illicit candid opinions from the experts.
> =20
> If you have seen an issue that can be reproduced/confirmed, please
>feel free to pass along directly if you wish to remain anonymous about
>this topic.
> =20
> Thanks for your patience.
> =20
>Ray Anderson <ray.anderson@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> =20
>The message posted anonymously to the list earlier today=20
> =20
> (deleted)
>Regards,
>
>-Ray Anderson
>(si-list admin)
>
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
>On Behalf Of mystery guy
>Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 2:06 PM
>To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: [SI-LIST] HELP!! SpecctraQuest is GOOD/BAD Tool for Board Level
>Simulation < 400 MT/s???
>
>Gurus,
>=3D20
>I recently heard a fellow say that SpecctraQuest is not an acceptable
>tool for SI simulation ...........=3D20
>
>(remainder deleted)
>
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