Arggh. I give up. The =3D20 should not be on the end of the last link. - ben.=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx=20 > [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Buhrow, Benjamin > Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 8:29 PM > To: bernard.goodwin@xxxxxxxxxxx; si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: FW: New and lastest reference on=20 > "Jitter, Noise, and Signal Integrity at High-Speed" >=20 > I frequently see links get mangled on this reflector. =20 > www.tinyurl.com can work wonders with this problem. >=20 > http://tinyurl.com/2r7hr5=3D20 >=20 > - ben. >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx=3D20 > > [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Goodwin, Bernard > > Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 2:02 PM > > To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > > Subject: [SI-LIST] FW: New and lastest reference on "Jitter,=3D20 =20 > >Noise, and Signal Integrity at High-Speed" > >=3D20 > > I had trouble with the Amazon.com link that you provided.=20 > =3D20 Here is=20 > >the correct one. > >=3D20 > > http://www.amazon.com/Jitter-Integrity-High-Speed-Prentice-Sem > iconductor > > /dp/0132429616 > >=3D20 > >=3D20 > > Bernard > >=3D20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx=3D20 > > [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] > > On Behalf Of Mike Peng Li > > Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 1:37 AM > > To: Zhengrong.Xu@xxxxxxxxxx; shawn.h.zheng@xxxxxxxxx > > Cc: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > > Subject: [SI-LIST] New and lastest reference on "Jitter,=3D20 = Noise,=20 > >and Signal Integrity at High-Speed" > >=3D20 > >=3D20 > > The answers to this question, or similar questions in=20 > the=3D20 general=20 > >areas of jitter, noise, and signal integrity (Xtalk=3D20 > > included) can be found in a=3D3D3D recent publication by=3D20 =20 > Prentice=20 > >Hall entitled "Jitter, Noise, and Signal =3D3D3D=3D20 Integrity at = High=20 > >Speed" at=3D3D3D20 =3D20 =20 > >http://www.amazon.com/Jitter-Integrity-High-Speed-Prentice-Sem > iconductor > > /=3D3D3D > > dp/0132429616 > >=3D20 > > with ISBN-13: 978-0-13-242961-0 > > ISBN-10: 0-13-242961-6 > >=3D20 > >=3D20 > > Thanks! > >=3D20 > > Mike > > =3D3D3D20 > >=3D20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx=3D20 > > [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] > > =3D3D3D > > On Behalf Of xuzhengrong > > Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2007 6:10 PM > > To: shawn.h.zheng@xxxxxxxxx > > Cc: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > > Subject: [SI-LIST] =3D3D3DB4=3D3D3DF0=3D3D3DB8=3D3D3DB4: Xtalk from=20 > >vertical=3D20 via to =3D3D horizontal tr=3D3D3D ace =3D20 From=20 > some paper I=20 > >also learnt that parallel-plated waveguide=3D20 > > (PPW) noise =3D3D3D =3D3D3D3D can be excited from vias in PCBs=20 > due to=3D20 =20 > >the mode conversion. The excited PPW noise can propagate=3D20 =20 > through a=20 > >PPW composed of power and ground planes. > > =3D3D3D3D=3D3D3D > >=3D20 > > The > > propagation of the PPW noise through PCBs results in=3D20 =20 > resonances in=20 > >transmission characteristics of signal vias due=3D20 to the multiple = > >=3D3D3D3D reflections from the edge of PCBs and=3D20 coupling = between=20 > >signal vias.=3D3D3D3D20 I wonder how much xtalk=3D20 the propagation = of=20 > >noise through via to via and =3D3D3D3D=3D3D3D =3D20 via to trace = results=20 > >in, too. > > Appreciate for any ideas. > >=3D20 > >=3D20 > > Best Regards, > > Zhengrong > >=3D20 > >=3D20 > > =3D > = -----=3D3D3D3DD3=3D3D3D3DCA=3D3D3D3DBC=3D3D3D3DFE=3D3D3D3DD4=3D3D3D3DAD=3D= 3D 3D3DBC=3D3D3D=3D > 3DFE----- > > = =3D3D3D3DB7=3D3D3D3DA2=3D3D3D3DBC=3D3D3D3DFE=3D3D3D3DC8=3D3D3D3DCB:=3D20 > > si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx =3D3D =3D3D3D3D=3D20=20 > > [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] > > =3D3D3D3DB4=3D3D3D3DFA=3D3D3D3DB1=3D3D3D3DED Shawn Zheng =3D > = =3D3D3D3DB7=3D3D3D3DA2=3D3D3D3DCB=3D3D3D3DCD=3D3D3D3DCA=3D3D3D3DB1=3D3D3D= 3DB C=3D3D3D3DE4:=3D >=20 > > 2007=3D3D3D3DC4=3D3D3D3DEA12=3D3D3D3DD4=3D3D3D3DC22=3D3D3D3DC=3D3D3D > > 8=3D3D3D3DD5 22:07 > > =3D3D3D3DCA=3D3D3D3DD5=3D3D3D3DBC=3D3D3D3DFE=3D3D3D3DC8=3D3D3D3DCB: = =3D > si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > > =3D3D3D3DD6=3D3D3D3DF7=3D3D3D3DCC=3D3D3D3DE2: [SI-LIST] Xtalk from=20 > vertical=3D20 > > via to =3D3D horizontal tra=3D3D3D ce > >=3D20 > > Hi, > > I appreciate if you care to offer your help on the following=3D20 > > two xtalk scenarios > >=3D20 > > 1. xtalk from vertical via to horizontal trace > >=3D20 > > via > >=3D20 > > --| > >=3D20 > > ----------------------------------------pwr > >=3D20 > > | > >=3D20 > > | > >=3D20 > > | > >=3D20 > > | ----------------------trace > >=3D20 > > | > >=3D20 > > --|------------------------------------gnd > >=3D20 > > | > >=3D20 > > -------------- > >=3D20 > > Only read some literature that talk about via to via=3D20 > > coupling. I wonder =3D3D3D3D=3D3D3D > >=3D20 > > how > > much direct coupling is from vertical via to horizontal trace=3D20 > > is. I =3D3D =3D3D3D3D think it is minimum since the trace is close = to=3D20 > > the ground. Let us think =3D3D3D3D differently. > > It is well known that the current transition through via=3D20 > > cause voltage =3D3D3D3D=3D3D3D > >=3D20 > > diff > > between parallel planes (pwr and gnd) fluctuates. Does the=3D20 > > fluctuation =3D3D3D3D=3D3D3D > >=3D20 > > then > > impact signal on the trace? > >=3D20 > >=3D20 > >=3D20 > >=3D20 > >=3D20 > > 2. pwr reference impact on signal > >=3D20 > > ----------------------------------------pwr > >=3D20 > >=3D20 > >=3D20 > >=3D20 > >=3D20 > >=3D20 > >=3D20 > >=3D20 > >=3D20 > > ----------------------trace > >=3D20 > > --------------------------------------gnd > >=3D20 > > If power plane above trace is noisy but stays larger distance=3D20 > > to trace =3D3D3D3D=3D3D3D > >=3D20 > > than > > ground plane, how much does the power plane affect trace=3D20 > > reference to ground? Kind of similar to the first question above. > >=3D20 > >=3D20 > >=3D20 > > Thanks. > >=3D20 > >=3D20 > >=3D20 > > Shawn > >=3D20 > >=3D20 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > To unsubscribe from si-list: > > si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the=20 > Subject field > >=3D20 > > or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: > > //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list > >=3D20 > > For help: > > si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field > >=3D20 > >=3D20 > > List technical documents are available at: > > http://www.si-list.net > >=3D20 > > List archives are viewable at: =3D3D3D3D20 > > //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list > > or at our remote archives: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages > > Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: > > http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu > > =3D3D3D3D20 > >=3D20 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > To unsubscribe from si-list: > > si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the=20 > Subject field > >=3D20 > > or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: > > //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list > >=3D20 > > For help: > > si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field > >=3D20 > >=3D20 > > List technical documents are available at: > > http://www.si-list.net > >=3D20 > > List archives are viewable at: =3D3D3D20 > > //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list > > or at our remote archives: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages > > Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: > > http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu > > =3D3D3D20 > >=3D20 > >=3D20 > >=3D20 > >=3D20 > > Confidentiality Notice. This message may contain information=3D20 > > that is con=3D3D3D fidential or otherwise protected from disclosure. > > If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby=3D20 > > notified that any u=3D3D3D se, disclosure, dissemination,=3D20 > > distribution,=3D3D3D20 or copying of this message, or any=3D20 > > attachments, is strictly prohibited. > > =3D3D3D > > If you have received this message in error,=3D3D3D20 please=3D20 > > advise the sender by reply e-mail, and delete the message and=3D20 > > any =3D3D3D attachments. Thank you. > >=3D20 > >=3D20 > >=3D20 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > To unsubscribe from si-list: > > si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the=20 > Subject field > >=3D20 > > or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: > > //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list > >=3D20 > > For help: > > si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field > >=3D20 > >=3D20 > > List technical documents are available at: > > http://www.si-list.net > >=3D20 > > List archives are viewable at: =3D3D20 > > //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list > > or at our remote archives: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages > > Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: > > http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu > > =3D3D20 > >=3D20 > > ************************************************************** > > ********* > > This email may contain confidential material. =3D3D > >=3D20 > > If you were not an intended recipient, =3D3D > >=3D20 > > please notify the sender and delete all copies. =3D3D > >=3D20 > > We may monitor email to and from our network. =3D3D > >=3D20 > >=3D20 > > ************************************************************** > > ********* > >=3D20 > > =3D3D0D > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > To unsubscribe from si-list: > > si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the=20 > Subject field > >=3D20 > > or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: > > //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list > >=3D20 > > For help: > > si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field > >=3D20 > >=3D20 > > List technical documents are available at: > > http://www.si-list.net > >=3D20 > > List archives are viewable at: =3D20 > > //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list > > or at our remote archives: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages > > Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: > > http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu > > =3D20 > >=3D20 > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > To unsubscribe from si-list: > si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field >=20 > or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: > //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list >=20 > For help: > si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field >=20 >=20 > List technical documents are available at: > http://www.si-list.net >=20 > List archives are viewable at: =20 > //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list > or at our remote archives: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages > Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: > http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu > =20 >=20 ------------------------------------------------------------------ To unsubscribe from si-list: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list For help: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field List technical documents are available at: http://www.si-list.net List archives are viewable at: //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list or at our remote archives: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu