If you are worried about dielectric loss, this is not the material for your program. -----Original Message----- From: Rick Brooks (ricbrook) Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2013 10:19 AM To: leeritchey@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ; ray.anderson@xxxxxxxxxx ; si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Cc: Ray Anderson Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: FR4 Permittivity Agreed, and while you at it, perhaps specify the temperature. 370HR suffers from a somewhat greater relative dielectric loss at high temperature compared to other materials. - Rick -----Original Message----- From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Lee Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2013 10:06 AM To: ray.anderson@xxxxxxxxxx; si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Cc: Ray Anderson Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: FR4 Permittivity This also depends on the glass to resin ratio. The data below is incomplete. Get the proper data from Isola directly. Must know both frequency and glass to resin ratio. -----Original Message----- From: Ray Anderson Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2013 9:17 AM To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Cc: Ray Anderson Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: FR4 Permittivity From the Isola 370HR data sheet: Freq. Test Method Er 100 MHz (HP4285A) 4.24 1 GHz (HP4291A) 4.17 2 GHz (Bereskin Stripline) 4.04 5 GHz (Bereskin Stripline) 3.92 10 GHz (Bereskin Stripline) 3.92 -Ray Raymond Anderson Senior Signal Integrity Staff Engineer Programmable Platforms Development Silicon Technology Group Signal Integrity and Package Development Department Xilinx Inc. 2100 Logic Drive San Jose, California 95124 -----Original Message----- From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Havermann, Gert Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2013 5:16 AM To: cyril.chastang@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [SI-LIST] AW: FR4 Permittivity This isn't good data. First of all, they only tested only once (you can tell that there is no variation in their Test results). Second, they don't specify the test Method they used, and there are official test methods giving totally wrong results (the old 1MHz plate capacitor method @ 1MHz used to be quite inaccurate). Third, the Data is measured at 1MHz, thus these values are useless for speeds exceeding 100MHz I recommend to go by the Datasheet (Isola is usually very good at dk/df testing), or test it on your own, but 2.173 is physically impossible for glass reinforced resin as the glass altready has a much higher dk. BR Gert ------------------------------------------------------------------ To unsubscribe from si-list: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list For help: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field List forum is accessible at: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list List archives are viewable at: //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.2899 / Virus Database: 2639/6107 - Release Date: 02/16/13 ------------------------------------------------------------------ To unsubscribe from si-list: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list For help: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field List forum is accessible at: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list List archives are viewable at: //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu