[SI-LIST] Re: Eye diagram measurement - And leaves your teeth Shiny White Too!
- From: Scott McMorrow <scott@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: tom@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 16:23:04 -0400
Gary,
Oooh, oooh , and to follow on after Tom, how those sorts of custom
measurements would integrate with the current and future board level SI
and timing tools!
Scott
Scott McMorrow
Grand Poobah
Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC
121 North River Drive
Narragansett, RI 02882
(401) 284-1827 Business
(401) 284-1840 Fax
http://www.teraspeed.com
Teraspeed® is the registered service mark of
Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC
Tom Dagostino wrote:
>Gary
>
>I'm sure that this would not be much of a challenge. But I think the
>community would like to see some examples of *-AMS models, how long they
>took to put together, how fast they run compared to SPICE or traditional
>IBIS, how accurate they are compared to SPICE under real world conditions,
>etc. I think this would be a great paper for DesignCon or one of the IBIS
>meetings. And as I said before, I'm willing to help with this by making
>measurements on a device and comparing them to simulations.
>
>Tom Dagostino
>Teraspeed Labs
>13610 SW Harness Lane
>Beaverton, OR 97008
>503-430-1065
>http://www.teraspeed.com
>tom@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
>Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC
>121 North River Drive
>Narragansett, RI 02882
>401-284-1827
>
>Teraspeed is the registered service mark of
>Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Pratt, Gary [mailto:gary_pratt@xxxxxxxxxxx]
>Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 12:43 PM
>To: tom@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; twesterh@xxxxxxxxx; si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: RE: [SI-LIST] Re: Eye diagram measurement - And leaves your
>teeth Shiny White Too!
>
>
>Tom,
>
>I wouldn't expect this to represent much of a challenge. I suspect much
>of the programming for this would be in sequential code (in a process),
>so it would look much like C.
>
>Btw: I just read an article on the timing requirements of DDR2
>receivers (related to the timing dependency on input slew rate). If I
>understand the issue correctly, this is another example of application
>which could be quickly addressed with an AMS receiver model. And, I
>suspect these are just the tip of the iceberg of useful applications
>that will become apparent once knowledge of the capabilities of AMS
>becomes more common.
>
>Gary
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
>On Behalf Of Tom Dagostino
>Sent: Friday, April 08, 2005 12:12 PM
>To: twesterh@xxxxxxxxx; si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Eye diagram measurement - And leaves your teeth
>Shiny White Too!
>
>Gary
>
>Are these things that hard to write?
>
>Tom Dagostino
>Teraspeed Labs
>13610 SW Harness Lane
>Beaverton, OR 97008
>503-430-1065
>http://www.teraspeed.com
>tom@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
>Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC
>121 North River Drive
>Narragansett, RI 02882
>401-284-1827
>
>Teraspeed is the registered service mark of Teraspeed Consulting Group
>LLC
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>[mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Todd Westerhoff
>(twesterh)
>Sent: Friday, April 08, 2005 6:58 AM
>To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Eye diagram measurement - And leaves your teeth
>Shiny White Too!
>
>
>I guess I'm confused. When you talk about automating eye measurments in
>AMS, are you speaking from experience, or hypothetically?
>
>Todd.
>
>Todd Westerhoff
>High Speed Design Group Manager
>Cisco Systems
>1414 Massachusetts Ave - Boxboro, MA - 01719 email:twesterh@xxxxxxxxx
>ph: 978-936-2149
>============================================
>
>"Always do right.
> This will gratify some people and astonish the rest."
>
>- Mark Twain
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
>On Behalf Of Pratt, Gary
>Sent: Friday, April 08, 2005 2:24 AM
>To: twesterh@xxxxxxxxx; si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Eye diagram measurement - And leaves your teeth
>Shiny White Too!
>
>Hi Todd,
>
>That would depend on the size of your consulting budget (or on a change
>in my job description). =20
>
>Though, I suspect the vendor of a tool supporting AMS might be willing
>to write such a model if it was made a contingency of a tool sale. =20
>
>Gary
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
>On Behalf Of Todd Westerhoff (twesterh)
>Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 11:59 AM
>To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Eye diagram measurement - And leaves your teeth
>Shiny White Too!
>
>Gary,
>
>That sounds like a very interesting and valuable application. Are you
>able to contribute some code for this?
>
>Todd.
>
>
>Todd Westerhoff
>High Speed Design Group Manager
>Cisco Systems
>1414 Massachusetts Ave - Boxboro, MA - 01719 email:twesterh@xxxxxxxxx
>ph: 978-936-2149
>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>=3D=
>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
>"Always do right.
> This will gratify some people and astonish the rest."
>
>- Mark Twain
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
>On Behalf Of Pratt, Gary
>Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 12:18 PM
>To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Eye diagram measurement - And leaves your teeth
>Shiny White Too!
>
>Of course, automated measurements is another benefit to AMS that hasn't
>received a lot of attention on the list. Creating an AMS receiver model
>that outputs eye measurements would be a very straightforward task.
>Actually, the device wouldn't have to be in the receiver, it could be
>attached anywhere in the circuit using [external circuit] in a "macro"
>fashion. =3D20
>
>The model would do its calculations during the simulation providing
>incremental data during the simulation, and the final results
>immediately at the end of the simulation. Watching the results progress
>towards and asymptote may provide a feel for adequacy of coverage and
>simulation time requirements. Consisting of mostly sequential coding
>(which is partitioned to the event-driven solver), the measurement would
>have minimal impact on the overall simulation time. =3D20
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
>On Behalf Of Scott McMorrow
>Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 10:22 AM
>To: Jim Antonellis
>Cc: edpc108@xxxxxxxxx; si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Eye diagram measurement
>
>The trick is one set of measure statements to cover each bit cell, which
>results in 100's, 1000's or 10000's of measure statements for an entire
>simulated data stream. It can be done and implemented with a script
>that parses the excitation pattern, and then processes all of the
>measurement results. It is not pretty. It is an exceedingly slow post
>processing operation in HSPICE, when the time resolution is down in the
>1ps range.
>Which is why other external waveform processing, as is done in the
>SiSoft tools, is more desireable.
>scott
>
>Scott McMorrow
>Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC
>121 North River Drive
>Narragansett, RI 02882
>(401) 284-1827 Business
>(401) 284-1840 Fax
>
>http://www.teraspeed.com
>
>Teraspeed(r) is the registered service mark of Teraspeed Consulting
>Group LLC
>
>
>
>Jim Antonellis wrote:
>
>
>
>>Hi Scott, Jaaprakash,
>>
>>I looked into this a while back, and I thought using the HSPICE=3D20=20
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>.MEASURE construct you did not have the ability to make multiple =
>>
>>
>bit=3D20
>
>
>
>>cell measurements. Could you please share the .MEASURE syntax that=3D20
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>=
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>would make this possible as I had to resort to a post-proc=20
>>spreadsheet=3D20 last time I did it.... and would greatfully appreciate
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>=
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>the
>>
>>
>"trick".
>
>
>>Thx,
>>Jim
>>
>>
>>-
>>Jim Antonellis janton@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>Sandburst Corp www.sandburst.com
>>Office: 978.689.1669
>>Cell: 978.618.4745
>>
>>This message and any attachments are Confidential and may be =
>>
>>
>Legally=3D20
>
>
>
>>Privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are not the
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>intended recipient, please delete this message from your system =
>>
>>
>and=3D20=20
>
>
>>notify us immediately. Any dis-closure, copying, distribution or action
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>taken or omitted to be taken by an unintended recipient in reliance=20
>>on=3D20 this message is prohibited and may be unlawful.
>>
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>[mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Scott McMorrow
>>Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 11:12 AM
>>To: edpc108@xxxxxxxxx
>>Cc: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Eye diagram measurement
>>
>>
>>Jaaprakash,
>>
>>Yes. It can be done with .measure statements, or it can be done=20
>>with=3D20 SiSoft's SiAuditor measurement capability.
>>
>>scott
>>
>>Scott McMorrow
>>Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC
>>121 North River Drive
>>Narragansett, RI 02882
>>(401) 284-1827 Business
>>(401) 284-1840 Fax
>>
>>http://www.teraspeed.com
>>
>>Teraspeed(r) is the registered service mark of Teraspeed Consulting
>>
>>
>Group=3D20
>
>
>>LLC
>>
>>
>>
>>Jayaprakash wrote:
>>
>>=3D20
>>
>>
>>
>>>Hi ,
>>>
>>> Is it possible to measure eye diagram height and width (not=3D20
>>>graphically) in HSPICE simulations?
>>>
>>>Thanks,
>>>
>>>Best regards,
>>> Jayaprakash.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Send instant messages to your online friends=3D20=20
>>>http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
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