[SI-LIST] Re: EM simulator software?
- From: "Zhou, Xingling (Mick)" <xlzhou@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: "'Pat_Diao@xxxxxxxx'" <Pat_Diao@xxxxxxxx>,"'bill.panos@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx'" <bill.panos@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,ttsp@xxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 08:58:18 -0500
Pat,
I agree with you.
It will be very interesting to see that a person without proper/enough
background can run EM (or other EAD) software. I bet we will need more trash
bins for more numerical garbage if that happens unfortunately.
Mick
-----Original Message-----
From: Pat Diao [mailto:Pat_Diao@xxxxxxxx]
Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2002 2:48 PM
To: 'bill.panos@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx'; ttsp@xxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: EM simulator software?
Reading thru this thread, I found a lot of weight is put on the software GI.
I look at a software from three aspects: User-friendliness(GI), solving
speed, and function/accuracy.
Personally I would put function/accuracy as the first priority, it has to
provide what I need.
Solving speed needs to be reasonable. Certainly I do not like software that
need to run for a week to get a solution(hopefully!). While at the same time
I'm not crazy about the 1 minute solution tools. If it needs two hours to
setup a project, what is the difference between getting a solution in 1 min
or 30 mins, if the latter is more accurate.
As far as the GI or user-friendliness, there are tools which are easy to
learn and feels easy to use initially. It usually also means fewer options
and less flexibility. Sooner or later, you'll find you need some controls
which are not available. While there are other tools which has a lot of
menu options and needs a lot of manual setup, you'll find it overwhelming
initially, but later you'll appreciate those options made available to you,
which is the group where HFSS falls into.
So I would put the importance in the following order: Accuracy, speed and
GI. For GI, I'd prefer complex and flexible than simple and non-flexible.
Pat
PAT DIAO
ASAT Inc
Fremont, CA
-----Original Message-----
From: bpanos [mailto:bill.panos@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 5:48 PM
To: ttsp@xxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: EM simulator software?
Rafael-
I'll concur with Tim's comments below regarding the 3D modeling tool(s),
though
I'm a novice user as well.
-Bill
ttsp@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
> Rafael,
>
> I agree with DG's and Jason's comment on HFSS. I began using HFSS this
May,
> there is a very deep learning curve. You need to invest a lot of time
before
> you can really use the tool. I even attended their training class in July,
> but the training class is useless to me. Did not help me to understand
> better about the tool, but more confussing about how it handles and
> simulates a 3D structure.
>
> The 3D modeler in HFSS is another bad design. One cannot even drag and
drop
> an object. Every move of an object needs to type in the moving distance
> manually. The shorcut key is another bad design. Some functions/commands
are
> used repeatedly, but don't have shortcut keys, so one have to go the top
> menu bar, pull down the menu, and select the function repeatedly. I
believe
> the GUI definitly needs to be improved in their future release.
>
> The manual of HFSS is brief and most likely one can get confussing about
the
> wording. Since the manual is not written in detail, I have to keep asking
> Ansoft AE for various questions. Another comment about their AE's, some of
> them are just not experienced enough. If you are lucky, your local AE may
> explain most of your questions.
>
> The good side is its accuracy. It matches the lab measurement pretty well.
> Overall, I have lots of furstration of using HFSS before a good simulation
> is obtained. If you have time or someone can teach you, and if you
> understand microwave & RF deeply, HFSS is definitly an accurate 3D full
wave
> tool to be considered.
>
> Tim
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: D G [mailto:dgun@xxxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 10:42 AM
> To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: EM simulator software?
>
> I have used all three, and more. Do you need full 3D simulation or is
> "planar 3D" (2-1/2D) good enough? (When I refer to "planar" below, I
really
> mean "planar 3D".)
>
> HFSS is a great general-purpose tool, but difficult to grasp unless you
have
> a good understanding of RF & Microwave. I don't like the user interface
> (UI). Ansoft sells many other simulators (probably too many) in addition
to
> HFSS which may meet your needs. Ensemble is a planar MOM simulator that
you
> can try for free. Spicelink might be interesting. (I haven't used
Ensemble
> nor Spicelink.)
>
> Sonnet only offers planar simulation. However, they've teamed up with CST
> Microwave studio to offer their 3D simulator. I have only used the free
> version of sonnet planar simulator, and it works fairly well. The UI was
> easy to learn. I couldn't fully test it, however, since the free version
is
> severely crippled compared to what I need. I've never used Microwave
> Studio, but the web page says it offers both time-domain and
> frequency-domain simulation, which might be useful.
>
> I've only used Eagleware for the distributed filter design. I've never
used
> the EM simulator. Note Eagleware only offers planar simulation. So if
you
> need to simulate non-planar circuits, Eagleware likely won't work for you.
>
> Agilent offers Momentum, which is a good planar simulator with a good UI.
I
> use it extensively, but it won't work for non-planar circuits.
>
> There are many other tools out there that I haven't tried. Some of them
> have been mentioned on this list. Is service and support important to
you?
> If not, you can try something like LC (time-domain), which is free from
> cray.
>
> From: "Rafael Martinez" <rmartinez@xxxxxx>
> >
> > Hello SI-List,
> >
> > We are investigating packages, interconnects, antennas and PCB
components
> > such as spiral inductors, capacitors... We are currently reviewing
various
> > 3D EM simulators such as HFSS, sonnet and Eagleware. Does anybody have
any
> > previous experience with them? and which of them would you recommend?
> Thank
> > you very much in advance.
> >
> > Best regards,
> > ___________________________________________________________________
> >
> > Rafael Martinez Catala Rossa Avenue, Bishopstown,
> > Postgraduate Research Student Cork, Ireland
> >
> > Cork Institute of Technology Fax: +353 21 4326625
> > Electronic Engineering Dep. Tel: +353 21 4326881
> >
> > http://www.cit.ie
> > ___________________________________________________________________
>
> --
> Daniel
> ZZZ-dgun-ZZZ-@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> (remove the Z-'s to reply--they're what I do when I read spam)
>
> --
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