Actually that is one of the things we do around here on a lot of projects. For example we will run a field solver to get a model of a structure, build a board with that structure and then make scope or VNA measurements to validate or tweak the model. We have even cross sectioned things to get a better understanding about what was going on in the device. Tom Dagostino Teraspeed(R) Labs 13610 SW Harness Lane Beaverton, OR 97008 503-430-1065 503-430-1285 FAX tom@xxxxxxxxxxxxx www.teraspeed.com Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC 121 North River Drive Narragansett, RI 02882 401-284-1827 -----Original Message----- From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ken Cantrell Sent: Friday, March 28, 2008 4:10 PM To: Max Artusy; si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Do you ever measure any of the things you model? Perhaps you suspect incorrectly. -----Original Message----- From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Max Artusy Sent: Friday, March 28, 2008 5:32 PM To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [SI-LIST] Do you ever measure any of the things you model? I notice that you all are most concerned with your model. Now by the scientific method, you have a hypothetical solution, produced by your model. The next step is to EVALUATE the result. That is done with a very good scope. No one ever seems to comment on this, leading me to suspect you only model. You know they did that with the Hubble space telescope. That technique produced one of the most expensive service calls in history. Once modeled, they should have TESTED the thing. Testing goes hand in hand with modeling, on the assumption that the model is incomplete. No measurement, saves lots of time. Any naive manager just loves to save test time. "Our models are perfect, you know" says he. ( He missed point of Scientific method, entirely) So what kind of scope and what kind of probing technique do you use? How do you ground your probe setup to the PCB, as a place to start? How much noise on the ground?? What is the exact construction of the probe interface to the PCB? This all counts, in high performance probing. Max Artusy ------------------------------------------------------------------ To unsubscribe from si-list: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list For help: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field List technical documents are available at: http://www.si-list.net List archives are viewable at: //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list or at our remote archives: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu ------------------------------------------------------------------ To unsubscribe from si-list: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list For help: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field List technical documents are available at: http://www.si-list.net List archives are viewable at: //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list or at our remote archives: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu ------------------------------------------------------------------ To unsubscribe from si-list: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list For help: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field List technical documents are available at: http://www.si-list.net List archives are viewable at: //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list or at our remote archives: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu