[SI-LIST] Re: Digest Number 1730

  • From: Faraydon Pakbaz <pakbazf@xxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 06:22:21 -0500

Greetings;

I am new to this. How do you post massage and attach power point slides?
Do just respond to the massage and include the attachment or do you need
to do it somewhere else? Thanks.

Regards;

Faraydon(Don) Pakbaz
AE/TS Customer Support Engineering
Email: pakbazf@xxxxxxxxxx
Voice: (802) 769-5638  Tieline: 446-5638   Fax: (802) 769-5722


                                                                           
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             Please respond to         [SI-LIST] Digest Number 1730        
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There are 3 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

      1. Re: Electrical wiring questions
           From: "Mike S." <powersurf@xxxxxxxxx>
      2. Re: Electrical wiring questions
           From: "Curt McNamara" <CurtM@xxxxxxxxxxx>
      3. Re: Electrical wiring questions
           From: "Curt McNamara" <CurtM@xxxxxxxxxxx>


________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 1
   Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2006 18:13:34 +0000
   From: "Mike S." <powersurf@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Electrical wiring questions

Thanks for the replies Steve and Deniel.
Any book suggestions?


B. Mike

On 2/18/06, dgun@xxxxxxxxxx <dgun@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Since you are stuck with a single-ended sensor, I don't see how
> the differential ADC will cancel any noise. Probably best to
> just use it in single-ended mode.
>
> --
> Daniel
>
>
> > From: "Mike S." <powersurf@xxxxxxxxx>
> > Hello to all,
> > I would like to ask for some advice and orientation on electrical
> > wiring matters!
> > I believe this configuration is very common:
> > I have an analog sensor with 3 wire leads (Vcc -5 V-, GND, signal)
> > that will be sampled by a fully differential ADC that is on a separate
> > PCB. I only have one 5 V power supply to power both the sensor and the
> > ADC PCB (this card is also 5V). I believe that the best way to connect
> > this setup is to power the ADC PCB and then, with a single connector
> > from the ADC PCB to sensor, containing 3 pins (Vcc,GND and signal).
> > This way would avoid ground loops. The problem is that I don't have
> > such a connector in the ADC PCB. In fact, I only have a connector with
> > 2 pins (Signal+ and Signal-, that are the ADC differential pins). So
> > the sensor must be powered from the same power supply, but with a
> > different cable that will not originate in the ADC PCB, but directly
> > in the power supply.
> > Since the connector to the sensor in the ADC PCB doesn't have any
> > ground pin the sensor return current would have to return in the power
> > supply ground wire. Although the ADC has fully differential inputs
> > (that would cancel any induced currents in the loop) I don't think
> > this is a good solution. Is it?
> >=3D20
> > Any suggestions or comments are welcome.
> > References like books or other publications that deal with these
> > matters are also welcome.
> >=3D20
> > Thanks in advance
> > Best Regards
> >=3D20
> > B. Mike
>
>
> --=3D20
> ___________________________________________________
> Play 100s of games for FREE! http://games.mail.com/
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
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________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 2
   Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2006 13:59:47 -0600
   From: "Curt McNamara" <CurtM@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Electrical wiring questions

Do you have control over the PCB and sensor? Or are these purchased
assemblies with fixed circuitry and components?

If they are fixed then you are correct that a separate cable with 5V
and GND is required. If this is the situation I would tie sensor GND
to Signal- of the ADC PCB. This should help cancel common mode
noise at the sensor, and simulates a "4 wire" measurement scheme.
The connection of sensor GND to Signal- should happen at the sensor
and not at the ADC PCB.

If you have control of the assemblies consider what the RF guys do
-- capacitively couple your signal on top of the 5V and decouple it at
the other end.

                                                     Curt

Curt McNamara. P.E.
Senior Electrical Engineer
Logic Product Development
411 Washington Ave. N Suite 101
Minneapolis, MN 55401
Tel 612-436-5178
Fax 612-672-0443
curtm@xxxxxxxxxxx
www.logicpd.com <file://www.logicpd.com>
This message (including any attachments) contains confidential information
intended for a specific individual and purpose, and is protected by law. If
you are not the intended recipient, you should delete this message and are
hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, or distribution of this
message, or the taking of any action based on it, is strictly prohibited.


________________________________

From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx on behalf of Mike S.
Sent: Fri 2/17/2006 5:43 PM
To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [SI-LIST] Electrical wiring questions



Hello to all,
I would like to ask for some advice and orientation on electrical
wiring matters!
I believe this configuration is very common:
I have an analog sensor with 3 wire leads (Vcc -5 V-, GND, signal)
that will be sampled by a fully differential ADC that is on a separate
PCB. I only have one 5 V power supply to power both the sensor and the
ADC PCB (this card is also 5V). I believe that the best way to connect
this setup is to power the ADC PCB and then, with a single connector
from the ADC PCB to sensor, containing 3 pins (Vcc,GND and signal).
This way would avoid ground loops. The problem is that I don't have
such a connector in the ADC PCB. In fact, I only have a connector with
2 pins (Signal+ and Signal-, that are the ADC differential pins). So
the sensor must be powered from the same power supply, but with a
different cable that will not originate in the ADC PCB, but directly
in the power supply.
Since the connector to the sensor in the ADC PCB doesn't have any
ground pin the sensor return current would have to return in the power
supply ground wire. Although the ADC has fully differential inputs
(that would cancel any induced currents in the loop) I don't think
this is a good solution. Is it?

Any suggestions or comments are welcome.
References like books or other publications that deal with these
matters are also welcome.

Thanks in advance
Best Regards

B. Mike
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________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 3
   Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2006 14:05:35 -0600
   From: "Curt McNamara" <CurtM@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Electrical wiring questions

The classic book is Ralph Morrison -- Grounding and Shielding Techniques.
ISBN: 0471245186
For ideas on cable shielding there is nothing better than Henry Ott --
Noise Reduction Techniques in Electronic Circuits. ISBN: 0471850683

                                                                 Curt

Curt McNamara. P.E.
Senior Electrical Engineer
Logic Product Development
411 Washington Ave. N Suite 101
Minneapolis, MN 55401
Tel 612-436-5178
Fax 612-672-0443
curtm@xxxxxxxxxxx
www.logicpd.com <file://www.logicpd.com>
This message (including any attachments) contains confidential information
intended for a specific individual and purpose, and is protected by law. If
you are not the intended recipient, you should delete this message and are
hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, or distribution of this
message, or the taking of any action based on it, is strictly prohibited.


________________________________

From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx on behalf of Mike S.
Sent: Sat 2/18/2006 12:13 PM
To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Electrical wiring questions



Thanks for the replies Steve and Deniel.
Any book suggestions?


B. Mike

On 2/18/06, dgun@xxxxxxxxxx <dgun@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Since you are stuck with a single-ended sensor, I don't see how
> the differential ADC will cancel any noise. Probably best to
> just use it in single-ended mode.
>
> --
> Daniel
>
>
> > From: "Mike S." <powersurf@xxxxxxxxx>
> > Hello to all,
> > I would like to ask for some advice and orientation on electrical
> > wiring matters!
> > I believe this configuration is very common:
> > I have an analog sensor with 3 wire leads (Vcc -5 V-, GND, signal)
> > that will be sampled by a fully differential ADC that is on a separate
> > PCB. I only have one 5 V power supply to power both the sensor and the
> > ADC PCB (this card is also 5V). I believe that the best way to connect
> > this setup is to power the ADC PCB and then, with a single connector
> > from the ADC PCB to sensor, containing 3 pins (Vcc,GND and signal).
> > This way would avoid ground loops. The problem is that I don't have
> > such a connector in the ADC PCB. In fact, I only have a connector with
> > 2 pins (Signal+ and Signal-, that are the ADC differential pins). So
> > the sensor must be powered from the same power supply, but with a
> > different cable that will not originate in the ADC PCB, but directly
> > in the power supply.
> > Since the connector to the sensor in the ADC PCB doesn't have any
> > ground pin the sensor return current would have to return in the power
> > supply ground wire. Although the ADC has fully differential inputs
> > (that would cancel any induced currents in the loop) I don't think
> > this is a good solution. Is it?
> >=3D20
> > Any suggestions or comments are welcome.
> > References like books or other publications that deal with these
> > matters are also welcome.
> >=3D20
> > Thanks in advance
> > Best Regards
> >=3D20
> > B. Mike
>
>
> --=3D20
> ___________________________________________________
> Play 100s of games for FREE! http://games.mail.com/
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from si-list:
> si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field
>
> or to administer your membership from a web page, go to:
> //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list
>
> For help:
> si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field
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> List FAQ wiki page is located at:
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> or at our remote archives:
>                 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages
> Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at:
>                 http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu
>
>
>
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