Oops that should have been: Sdd21 = insertion loss of victim Sdd43 = insertion loss of aggressor Sdd13 = near end crosstalk NEXT Sdd23 = far end crosstalk FEXT = "crosstalk loss" Scott McMorrow Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC 121 North River Drive Narragansett, RI 02882 (401) 284-1827 Business (401) 284-1840 Fax http://www.teraspeed.com Teraspeed® is the registered service mark of Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC Scott McMorrow wrote: > Actually, I believe all measurements are made w.r.t. the victim. > > Crosstalk loss is the energy that the sum total of the aggressors impart > on the victim. In a 4-line system with 4 differential ports. > > Sdd21 = insertion loss of victim > Sdd43 = insertion loss of aggressor > Sdd13 = near end crosstalk NEXT > Sdd21 = far end crosstalk FEXT = "crosstalk loss" > > When the moon and stars line up and all aggressors fire at a point and > phase where they destructively interfere with the victim at the > receiver, then you have an apparent loss, or "crosstalk loss". > Interestingly enough, if the aggressors constructively interfere with > the victim, then you get an apparent gain, or "crosstalk gain". They > use a power sum for multiple aggressors, based on the assumption that > not all aggressors will be at the worst case phase alignment with the > victim at any time. Personally, I'd much rather use a linear sum, just > to be sure. > > > Scott McMorrow > Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC > 121 North River Drive > Narragansett, RI 02882 > (401) 284-1827 Business > (401) 284-1840 Fax > > http://www.teraspeed.com > > Teraspeed® is the registered service mark of > Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC > > > > wolfgang.maichen@xxxxxxxxxxxx wrote: > >> I have to admit I haven't heard that term myself before. But from the text >> it looks like they mean the signal loss in the agressor - keep in mind >> that the crosstalk signal (energy) in the victim has to come from >> somewhere, so if there is to be a crosstalk signal on the victim, then the >> agressor must experience signal loss. Loss in aggressor signal voltage is >> often not as easily visible, for two reasons. Since power is proportional >> to the square of the voltage, a 1% energy loss due to crosstalk amounts to >> only an approx. 0.5% reduction in aggressor signal. In addition, it's >> easier to observe the crosstalk on the victim going from e.g. 0 to 10mV - >> a large relative change - than it is to observe the aggressor signal going >> from 1000mV to 995mV - a very small relative change -, which can hide the >> effect in practical scope measurements and lead to the false belief that >> crosstalk only affects the victim but not the aggressor. >> Wolfgang >> >> >> >> >> >> >> agathon <hreidmarkailen@xxxxxxxxx> >> Sent by: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >> 12/04/2007 05:01 PM >> Please respond to >> hreidmarkailen@xxxxxxxxx >> >> >> To >> si-list <si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> >> cc >> >> Subject >> [SI-LIST] Definition of "crosstalk loss" ?? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Hello all, >> I'm trying to make clearer the following statement from 802.3ap: >> >> "...FEXTn is the crosstalk loss, in dB, of aggressor n." >> >> What the heck is "crosstalk loss"???? >> >> >> The full paragraph is: >> >> 69B.4.6.2 Power sum differential far-end crosstalk (PSFEXT) >> The differential far-end crosstalk at TP4 is calculated as the power sum >> of >> the individual FEXT aggressors >> (PSFEXT). PSFEXT is computed as shown in Equation (69B?16), where FEXTn is >> the crosstalk loss, in dB, >> of aggressor n. Note that for the case of a single aggressor, PSFEXT will >> be >> the crosstalk loss for that single >> aggressor. >> >> >> Thanks, >> Agathon >> >> ------------ >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------ >> To unsubscribe from si-list: >> si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field >> >> or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: >> //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list >> >> For help: >> si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field >> >> >> List technical documents are available at: >> http://www.si-list.net >> >> List archives are viewable at: >> //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list >> or at our remote archives: >> >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages >> Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: >> http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------ >> To unsubscribe from si-list: >> si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field >> >> or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: >> //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list >> >> For help: >> si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field >> >> >> List technical documents are available at: >> http://www.si-list.net >> >> List archives are viewable at: >> //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list >> or at our remote archives: >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages >> Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: >> http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu >> >> >> >> >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > To unsubscribe from si-list: > si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field > > or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: > //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list > > For help: > si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field > > > List technical documents are available at: > http://www.si-list.net > > List archives are viewable at: > //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list > or at our remote archives: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages > Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: > http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ To unsubscribe from si-list: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list For help: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field List technical documents are available at: http://www.si-list.net List archives are viewable at: //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list or at our remote archives: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu