[SI-LIST] Re: Coupled & Lossy Line Model Validation Structure
- From: "burke_ipc" <burke@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 03:50:12 -0000
I thought since Interactive Products SPICE Lossy Models were
included in the study that Samtec has done, it would be note worthy
to reference a technical paper on our site that describes how these
Universal (portable) Lossy SPICE models are created. The paper
describes the Lossy Ladder, Lossy Time Domain, and Lossy Frequency
Domain SPICE models that we produce.
There are two papers, the second is a little more detailed than the
first. The following link will take you there:
http://www.interactive-products.com/download.htm#Technical_Paper
The "PCB West" paper under the Presentations header is the more
detailed, and the "Conductor and Dielectric Losses" is an
abbreviated version which was published in High Frequency
Electronics.
Brian Burke
Interactive Products Corporation
Signal Integrity Software Solutions
http://www.interactive-products.com
--- In si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, ronald miller <ron@xxxx> wrote:
> Hi julian
>
> This is wonderful news.
>
> 1. There is a lot of confusion about Frequency domain and Time
domain
> models of
> lossy lines and it is great that you have made measurements
as
> well as investigated
> the various simulation models and simulation tools
including
> S-Parameters.
> 2. It is also very encouraging that after all your hard work you
have
> elected to share
> this information with the engineering community.
> 3. Lastly, it is great that you are trying to open the door to
an
> open forum so that others
> may contribute as well.
>
> Good work, and I hope that we may at some time collaborate.
>
> Ron Miller
>
> Julian Ferry wrote:
>
> >A few months back, I mentioned that we at Samtec were working on
a paper
> >about lossy line models. We're still not completely finished,
but we have
> >some initial segments ready. They are available on our website
now.
> >
> >The first part discusses a reference structure which we have been
using for
> >a few years for validating models and simulations. We have built
the
> >structure (which we call the Golden Standard) physically, and
have used it
> >to investigate and validate new test procedures. We have found
the Golden
> >Standard to be so useful, that we thought other SI Engineers
might be
> >interested as well. Its not rocket science, but we figured, why
force
> >people to re-invent the wheel?
> >
> >The structure is a basic, 2 line micro strip PCB. Analytical
solutions
> >exist for several key loss and coupling parameters. Those
solutions make
> >great markers for comparing with simulated data. I should also
note that
> >the Golden Standard demonstrates the infamous "anomalous"
insertion loss
> >resonance effect that pops up here on the list from time to time.
> >
> >The first part of the paper gives an overview of the structure.
It includes
> >data obtained from 2D and 3D solvers, and measured data from
Agilent's PLTS
> >system and TDA Systems IConnect TDR data post processor. The
second part of
> >the paper gives a theoretical discussion on the derivation of the
analytical
> >solutions.
> >
> >We have analyzed the Golden Standard using just about every
modeling and
> >simulation tool at our disposal. We have built models using
several 2 D and
> >3 D solvers, used the models to generate spice and S-parameter
models that
> >we have run in Berkeley SPICE, HSPICE, and PSPICE, we have
generated models
> >from physical measurements using the Agilent PLTS and TDA Systems
software,
> >looked at single ended and differential simulations and
measurements, in the
> >time and frequency domains. So far we have about 75 pages of
data. We will
> >eventually be posting this data on our website. We still have
quite a few
> >simulations to go, and plan to continue to add to the list over
time.
> >
> >We are considering opening up the data base so that other users
can post
> >results there too. We haven't worked out the logistics for that
yet. But if
> >anyone is interested in something like that, please send an email
to
> >goldenstandard@xxxx We could host that on our website, or
possibly
> >set it up in relation to the SI list archive pages in someway.
> >
> >In the mean time, the papers are available on our website at:
> >
>
>http://www.samtec.com/signal_integrity/golden_standards/goldenstanda
rd_part1
> >.pdf
>
><http://www.samtec.com/signal_integrity/golden_standards/goldenstand
ard_part
> >1.pdf>
> >
>
>http://www.samtec.com/signal_integrity/golden_standards/goldenstanda
rd_part2
> >.pdf
>
><http://www.samtec.com/signal_integrity/golden_standards/goldenstand
ard_part
> >2.pdf>
> >
> >Or you can go to www.samtec.com <http://www.samtec.com/> , hit
the "Signal
> >Integrity" Tab, and hit "Golden Standard" from there.
> >
> >A description of the cross section is there, along with the
analytical
> >values, so it's a pretty easy process to set up and run some quick
> >validations of your current processes. We should soon have
a .dwg cross
> >section file posted there too, which you might be able to paste
directly
> >into your software.
> >
> >In addition, we have fabbed some sample boards complete with SMA
attachment
> >points. These boards are great for validating test procedures
and 3D solver
> >solutions. We will have 40-50 on hand to give away at DesignCon
next week,
> >so stop by our booth if you're interested. We will also be making
them
> >available from our website in the next few weeks. If you would
like to
> >request a kit when they become available, send your contact
information to
> >goldenstandard@xxxx <mailto:goldenstandard@xxxx> .
> >
> >Thanks.
> >
> >Julian Ferry
> >High Speed Engineering Manager
> >Samtec, Inc
> >Mechanicsburg, PA
> >
> >
> >
> >
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>
> --
> Ronald Miller
> Ghz Data, Signal Integrity Consulting
> 7721 Sunset Ave.
> Newark CA 94560
> tel 510-793-4744
> cell 510-377-9380
> fax 510-742-6686
> www.ghzdata.com
>
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