A stimulating thread I can no longer resist commenting on. Thermal distribution is aided by more copper (pointed out by at least two others). Additional copper thieving by the board fabricator to achieve more even copper throw should be comprised of small patches of copper (more on this later) and adhere to the approximate spacing guideline of 3 x Dielectric thickness (noted by Lee Ritchey) away from traces on the same layer AND on adjacent layers (for the same rationale; i.e., impedance loading). I've noted >10% loading caused by this effect. Small copper patches (for thieving) do not need to be individually grounded as their fundamental resonance will be in the high GHz region, which is above the frequencies of interest for most of today's boards. However, I soundly disagree with some comments in this thread about fills NOT being a potential EMI issue, and about grounding of fills. First, with the edge rates achieved by current semiconductor technologies, any surface conductor over 1/4 inch should be used with care. Current induced in surface fills through electromagnetic coupling WILL cause radiated emissions to occur. Its only a matter of antenna efficiency (a strong function of frequency/harmonics/edge speed) of the fill as to whether it becomes of concern or not. Inadvertent antenna formation can occur with slots in planes (slot antenna) and copper patches. These structures are routinely used in microwave antenna designs, particularly for flat, antenna arrays and for the "skins" of missiles. Slots and patches are used also as impedance matching elements to achieve maximum power transfer to surface antennas. There was a special issue of the Proceedings of the IEEE dedicated to this topic in January 1992. Check it out for a good overview of the 30 or so different antenna structures and an excellent article (with illustrative pictures) of the coupling structures. Scott's comments on grounding fills and adding what I call "spoiler" vias to form a gridded connection to the internal ground plane(s) is right on target at avoiding efficient "antennas" and minimizing radiated emissions. These grounded patches of fill serve as field termination points for emissions generated by traces and package structures on the board surface. We all know that high frequency signals will take the path of least impedance to return to their reference. The grounded fills provide the most convenient termination path to fields that are generated above the board assembly by signal currents in the vicinity of the fills. The net effect is to reduce the radiated emissions that WOULD occur without the grounded fills. Note: Similar field termination effects are achieved by chassis-grounded guard rings around the periphery of boards. Grounded fills also help lower the overall impedance of the board ground structure which has a very positive effect in suppressing common-mode voltage development. This in turn will minimize radiated emissions from any cables connected to the board assembly. In my designs, I take advantage of any open areas on the surface layers of boards to a) add shielding and field termination surfaces, b) parallel ground (or power) planes with fills (connected by the noted vias) to lower the board common mode impedance, c) lower the board thermal conductivity to minimize temperature and localized physical stresses, and d) increase board stiffness for less flexure over life. Using these (and other) techniques on problem boards I have been called in to "fix," I have routinely achieved a 15 to 25 dB reduction in radiated emission levels for more than 20 clients and over 100 different boards in the last 10 years. The following comment by Alex McPheeters is right on target. "Though this is far off the original topic, we all should know and your selection of bare-board vendor should also know that they should never 'assume' anything, today's PCB's tolerate very little assuming..." Mike Michael L. Conn Owner/Principal Consultant Mikon Consulting Cell: (408)821-9843 *** Serving Your Needs with Technical Excellence *** ------------------------------------------------------------------ To unsubscribe from si-list: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list For help: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field List archives are viewable at: //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list or at our remote archives: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu