[SI-LIST] Re: Circle bus topology; Circular Firing Squad?

  • From: olaney@xxxxxxxx
  • To: Arpad_Muranyi@xxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 14:15:49 -0700

I've added an additional note to forestall a dead end line of reasoning.
You are headed in the right direction.  The electrons only drift slowly
with the current.  Meanwhile, they wander all over the place under
thermal influence.  Note that being electrons, they mutually repel and
never actually collide.  To do that, electrons require energies typical
of a particle accelerator.  The temperature would have to be so high that
the metal would have long since vaporized.

For solid metals at room temperature (and considerably higher), the sea
of electrons in the metal acts like a 3D mesh of tiny masses suspended by
electrostatic "springs".  The wave is transmitted at close to the speed
of light by the electrostatic forces in the mesh (action at a distance). 
The response of the mesh to disturbances is linear and superposition
applies.  Waves can pass in all directions simultaneously and
independently. 

Note: The electric wave propagation is so fast compared to the electron
drift, that though the electrons will wiggle slightly in response, their
nominal positions are as if they are frozen in a snapshot.  Drift
movement is of no consequence to the wave propagation.  The thermal
portion averages to zero, and the slow drift with current is a response,
not a cause.  

Orin



On Wed, 1 Aug 2007 12:03:15 -0700 "Muranyi, Arpad"
<Arpad_Muranyi@xxxxxxxxxx> writes:
> Now that I think of it, the electrons in the copper lattice
> are moving in all different directions, not just in the
> direction of the wave, so they not only hit the electrons
> of the other wave where the waves meet, but they also hit the
> electrons of their own wave...  So the bouncing will basically
> follow a random pattern allowing some to go through, some
> go sideways, others to turn around, etc...
> =20
> Arpad
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Muranyi, Arpad=20
> Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 11:13 AM
> To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: RE: [SI-LIST] Re: Circle bus topology; Circular Firing 
> Squad?
> 
> This is why we need to use coloring dye...  :-)
> 
> Seriously, I wonder about the particle and
> wave duality of electrons.  Remember, the
> drift velocity of electrons is not the same
> as the propagation velocity of the EM waves.
> 
> So what happens at the "collision" point (i.e.
> the electrical midpoint of the loop)?  Do=20
> the electrons hit each other and bounce back
> like balls with the drift velocity speeds,
> while at the same time the waves go through
> each other (at speeds close to c) without
> changing directions?
> 
> Another analogy comes to my mind, when two laser
> beams on different path cross each other.  After
> the cross point we are still going to see their
> original colors without any mixing.  However,
> if you did the same with two water streams,
> the cross point will result in a splash in all
> different directions...
> 
> Is there someone out there with a good physics=20
> background who could shed some light on this?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Arpad

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