[SI-LIST] Re: Cable grounding scheme
- From: "Ihsan Erdin" <erdinih@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: "Xilei Liu" <xileil@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 09:39:50 -0400
Celine,
First of all, I want to express my apologies to Jinhua for -kind of-
hijacking his topic for a potentially flaring issue.
I think this issue goes as far back as the debate over single-point
vs.multi-point connection between chassis and digital grounds. As
such, it is more of an conducted/radiated emission problem than SI. The
dilemma is while single-point connection could be justified by the fact that
it avoids very low frequency common mode (noise) currents from creeping into
the power line, in order to cut down on the radiated emissions at high
frequencies, multi-point connection is strictly required between the two
reference systems. In his "EMC and printed Circuit board design theory and
layout made simple" book, for example, M. Montrose suggests stitching the
two reference systems at a distance of lambda/20, with lambda being the
wavelength of the highest frequency component of the spectrum of the system.
The book was published in 1999. With today's multi-gigahertz systems, it's
impossible to achieve such a design goal and it's an overkill at any rate.
But the necessity of multi-point connection is not a debate any more. Some
designers try to find a mid-way by connecting the reference systems with
high frequency caps but the boards are already overly-populated by the same
type of caps used for decoupling and there's the issue of parasitic
inductances that defeat the purpose. Today, the commonplace approach, at
least in the designs that I observe, is to suppress the low frequency CM
currents with power line filters and directly connect the chassis and
digital grounds at practically as many points as possible against radiated
emissions.
If you want to see some numbers and charts to support these ideas, in "EMI
and Troubleshooting Techniques" book, M. Mardiguian gives a very good
example that compares the two grounding strategies.
Regards,
Ihsan
On 8/15/06, Xilei Liu <xileil@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> Hey, Ihsan,
>
> I've ever seen notes that published in the past in 2002, saying that"we
> learned from NRAO engineers that it is both feasible and advisable to
> physically separate digital circuits from analog systems, and to interpose
> a
> minimum of two levels of Faraday shielding acting in series." From my
> point
> of view, it should be easier to employ different EMI solutions for power
> line and signal line separately when the digital/analog grounds are
> separated and connected somehow at a single-point. What will be the
> problems
> in terms of SI? Welcome your 'fight back' so that I can learn more ;)
>
> Regards,
> Celine
>
>
> >From: "Ihsan Erdin" <erdinih@xxxxxxxxx>
> >Reply-To: erdinih@xxxxxxxxx
> >To: chen_jinhua@xxxxxxx
> >CC: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Cable grounding scheme
> >Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 06:29:32 -0400
> >
> >This question makes me wonder if there're any designers left who still
> >separate logic ground from the chassis ground in high-speed digital
> circuit
> >design -and on what basis? I thought this whole issue of chassis vs.
> logic
> >ground was something of the past.
> >Regards,
> >
> >Ihsan
> >
> >On 8/14/06, chen_jinhua@xxxxxxx <chen_jinhua@xxxxxxx> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I have a few general questions about the high speed cable grounding
> > > scheme. It could impact both SI and EMI. I would like to have your
> > > inputs about this issue.
> > >
> > > Scheme 1: cable does not separate logic ground and chassis ground. But
> > > when it connects the system/boards, the system/boards have separate
> > > logic ground and chassis ground. How do you separate/connect the logic
> > > ground to chassis ground in boards? What is the pros and cons for SI
> > > and/or EMI?=20
> > >
> > > Scheme 2: Cable keeps separate logic ground and chassis ground.
> > > System/boards also keep the separate logic and chassis ground. Cable
> > > logic ground and board logic ground connects, and chassis connects the
> > > chassis ground. How do you separate/connect the logic ground to
> chassis
> > > ground in boards? What is the pros and cons for SI and/or EMI?
> > >
> > > Do you prefer scheme 1 or scheme 2? What is the pros and cons of
> scheme
> > > 1 vs. scheme 2 for SI and/or EMI? Does SI and EMI have conflict
> > > requirements?
> > >
> > > Thanks!
> > >
> > > Jinhua Chen
> > > SI of Hardware Engineering
> > > EMC Corp.
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