[SI-LIST] Re: Best Signal integrity Schools in the USA
- From: "Chris Cheng" <Chris.Cheng@xxxxxxxx>
- To: <olaney@xxxxxxxx>, <Roy.Leventhal@xxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2008 18:51:34 -0700
I would love to learn how to model a multi-giga bit channel with accuracy down
to -50db with a yellow pad.
I would love to learn how to predict eye openings of heavily loaded DDR2/3
buses with multiple loads and multiple branches and driving positions under sso
and crosstalk conditions with a yellow pad.
I would love to learn how to model package interconnects that has imperfect
return reference planes with a yellow pad.
I would love to learn how to deliver power to a multi-giga hertz IC where the
power grid and via structure is inherited 2 1/2 and 3D with a yellow pad.
Are you sure we are talking about the same SI work here ? What does your
average EMI engineer knows about the above anyways ?
________________________________
From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx on behalf of olaney@xxxxxxxx
Sent: Sun 3/23/2008 2:07 PM
To: Roy.Leventhal@xxxxxxxx
Cc: avtaarenator@xxxxxxxxx; si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Best Signal integrity Schools in the USA
The symptom we see today is that many designers are heavily reliant upon
really big, expensive software tools to iterate empirical designs into
something workable. The same designer, given adequate understanding of
the underlying principles, can often do 90% of the work on a yellow pad,
then use software for cleanup and as a sanity check. When I see SI
related job descriptions that want work experience with a big list of
tools, I can readily guess what the company mindset is: substitution of
tools for competence, and bring in the consultants when they get into
trouble.
Orin
On Sun, 23 Mar 2008 14:53:44 -0500 Roy Leventhal <Roy.Leventhal@xxxxxxxx>
writes:
> Avtaar,
>
> It seems strange to me that in the present/coming years of
> "microwave
> digital" that we will be graduating logic designers who will be
> unable to
> get their signals across a PCB or keep those signals from
> interfering with
> other signals.
>
> As things stand today any EMI engineer can tell you that they can
> make an entire
> career on fixing prototype SI/EMI problems based on the same
> half-dozen principles
> from SI/EMI 101. But, fixing problems in hardware instead of
> catching them in the
> virtual design not working smart. Part of the challenge of working
> smart is applying
> principles and analysis early in development. The logic designer is
> best positioned
> to do that or involve specialist to do it for him or her.
>
> First we had the analog age. Then we had the digital age. Now I
> believe we
> have the dawning of the age of fast impulse signals driving logic
> circuits.
>
> Meanwhile our schools are, as always, a day late and a dollar short
> - not
> necessarily a few individual professors and schools here and there.
> When I got my
> BSEE in 1962 my professors were still teaching me about vacuum tubes
> and had barely
> started seriously considering teaching transistors. This is despite
> the fact that
> industry had developed viable transistors for nearly a decade by
> then.
>
> The IEEE EMC Society is just now making a credible effort to address
> signal
> integrity. But, signal integrity has been a driving issue for about
> 20
> years now.
>
> It is hard to evolve institutionalized cultures (schools,
> professional societies, and
> old-line companies) and thinking. They are, after all, in the
> business of perpetuating
> their PAST successes and expertise.
>
> The advice about UM-R is good. So is the advice about noting which
> professors and
> schools are publishing in the latest technologies. Beyond that, stay
> informed and well
> ead from industry-oriented trade magazines in those latest
> technologies on your own.
> Let me suggest High Frequency, Conformity, and the IEEE EMC Society
> quarterly newsletter.
>
> Lastly, here is a reading list of reference textbooks you can
> consider perusing:
>
>
> [1] Staff of Agilent Technologies, "Time Domain Reflectometry
> Theory,"
> Application Note 1304-2 Hewlett-Packard, 2006.
>
> See also:
>
> Staff of HP, "Time Domain Reflectometry Theory," Application Note
> 1304-2
> Hewlett-Packard, 1988.
> http://www.lthe.hmg.inpg.fr/medite/5966-4855E.pdf
>
> [2] Staff of Agilent, "Manuals: Network Analyzers," Various,
> down-loadable, Agilent.
>
http://www.home.agilent.com/agilent/facet.jspx?c=153424.i.2&to=80039.k.1&;
cc=US&lc=eng&no=225
>
>
<http://www.home.agilent.com/agilent/facet.jspx?c=153424.i.2&to=80039.k.1
&cc=US&lc=eng&no=225>
>
>
>
> [3] C. Antonescu, P.D. Ewing, "EMI/RFI and Power Surge Withstand
> Guidance for the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission."
>
> [4] Bruce R. Archambeault, "Shielding of Air Vent Holes," page 102
> IEEE
> EMC Society Newsletter, Issue # 215, Fall 2007
>
> [5] Bruce R. Archambeault and James L. Drewniak, /PCB Design for
> Real
> World EMI Control/, Springer, 2002. ISBN: 1-4020-7130-2
>
> [6] Bill Ashley, "Using the Network Analyzer as a Grid Dip
> Oscillator,"
> AN 132 AEA Technology, Inc., 2005
>
http://www.aeatechnology.com/usermanuals/AN132%20Using%20the%20Network%20
Analyzer%20as%20a%20Grid%20Dip%20Oscillator.pdf
>
>
>
> [7] Eric Bogatin, /Signal Integrity: Simplified/, Prentice Hall,
> 2004.
> ISBN: 0-13-066946-6
>
> [8] Marty Brown, "Good Physical Layout Takes Black Magic Out of
> Power
> Supply Design," EDA Design Line, 2000.
> http://www.edadesignline.com/showArticle.jhtml?article?ID=192200741
>
> [9] Nachyuck Chang, "Theory of Oscilloscope," SNU.
> http://elpl.snu.ac.kr/csd07/lecturenote/4_dso.pdf
>
> [10] Sonia Ben Dhia, Mohamed Ramdani, and Etienne Sicard,
> /Electromagnetic Compatibility of Integrated Circuits: Techniques
> for
> Low Emission and Susceptibility,/ Springer, 2005. ISBN:
>
> [11] Mike Eberly and Larry Dunleavy, "Student's Introduction to the
> HP8714 RF Network Analyzer," 1998
> http://ee.eng.usf.edu/people/dunleavy/references/reading2.pdf
>
> [12] Morris Engelson and Fred Telewski, /Spectrum Analyzer Theory
> and
> Applications,/ Artech House, 1974. ISBN-10: 089006024X, ISBN-13:
> 978-0890060247
>
> [13] Y. W. Fowlkes, C. L. Creveling, /Engineering Methods for Robust
>
> Product Design/, Addison-Wesley, 1995.
>
> [14] Gene Garat, and Staff of IBM, "EMSAT Rules Checker 16 Rules,"
> Moss
> Bay EDA and IBM, http://www.mossbayeda.com/EMSAT-Rules.pdf, March
> 2006.
>
> [15] Michael Hiebel, /Fundamentals of Vector Network Analysis/,
> Rohde &
> Schwarz, ISBN: 978-3-939837-0
>
> [16] Todd Hubing, "Circuit Board Layout to Reduce Noise Emission and
>
> Susceptibility," University of Missouri - Rolla, March 2006
>
> [17] Multivariate Statistical Analysis: IBM Data Explorer,
> http://www.research.ibm.com/dx/
>
> [18] Staff, ICEM #62014-3, "Electromagnetic Compatibility Part 3
> Integrated Circuits Electrical Modeling," IEC Standard Proposal/,
> /2002.
>
> [19] Staff, IEC # 61000-4-2, "Electromagnetic Compatibility Part 4-2
>
> Testing and Measurement Techniques - Electrostatic Discharge
> Immunity
> Test, IEC, 2001. ISBN: 2-8318-5687-6
>
> [20] Yoonjae Lee and Raj Mittra, "Electromagnetic Interference
> Mitigation by Using a Spread-Spectrum Approach," IEEE Transactions
> on
> Electromagnetic Compatibility, Vol. 44, No. 2, May 2002.
>
> [22] Roy Leventhal and Lynne Green, Semiconductor Modeling: For
> Simulating Signal, Power and Electromagnetic Integrity, Springer,
> 2006.
> ISBN 0-387-24159-0
>
> [23] Michel Mardiguian, /Controlling Radiated Emissions by Design,
> 2^nd
> Ed.,/ Springer, 2001. ISBN: 0792379780
>
> [24] F. D. Martzloff, "Lightening and NEMP Transient Protection with
>
> Metal Oxide Varistors," General Electric Technical Information
> Series
> 82CRD084, 1982.
>
> [25] Staff, Maxim, "A Beginners Guide to Filter Topologies,"
> Application
> Note 1762 Maxim, Inc., 2002,
> http://www.maxim-ic.com/appnotes.cfm/an_pk/1762
>
> [26] Staff, Maxim, "EMI/EMC Suppression in Audio/Video Interfaces,"
> Application Note 3882 Maxim, Inc., 2006,
> http://www.maxim-ic.com/appnotes.cfm/an_pk/3882
>
> [27] Scott Mee, Roy Leventhal, Al Wexler and Mike Ventham,
> "Simulation
> for the Suppression of PCB Emissions in Digital Telematics Devices,"
>
> ITEM Update 2002, p56.
>
> [28] Staff of Mentor Graphics, "Design Rule Checks (DRC) for
> QuietExpert," Mentor Graphics, June 2005
>
> [29] Staff of National Instruments, "Noise Figure Measurement with
> the
> National Instruments RF Signal Generator and RF Vector Signal
> Analyzer,"
> National Instruments, 2006
> http://zone.ni.com/devzone/cda/tut/p/id/3737
>
> [30] Henry W. Ott, /Noise Reduction Techniques in Electronic
> Systems,
> 2^nd Ed./, John Wiley & Sons, 1988. ISBN: 0-471-85068-3
>
> [31] Edward Pasahow, /Electronics Pocket Reference, 2^nd Ed/.,
> McGraw-Hill, 1994. ISBN 0-07-048737-5
>
> [32] Clayton R. Paul, Introduction to Electromagnetic Compatibility,
>
> John Wiley & Sons, 1992. ISBN: 0-471-54927-4
>
> [33] R. A. Pease, /Troubleshooting Analog Circuits/, Newnes, 1991.
> ISBN:
> 0750694998
>
> [34] R. Perez, Editor, /Handbook of Electromagnetic Compatibility,/
> Academic Press, Inc. 1995.
>
> [35] A. Peterson, S. Ray & R. Mittra, Computational Methods for
> Electromagnetics, IEEE Press & Oxford University Press, 1998.
>
> [36] M. S. Phadke, /Quality Engineering Using Robust Design/,
> Prentice-Hall, 1989.
>
> [37] Muhammad H. Rashid, Power /Electronics: Circuits, Devices and
> Applications, 2^nd Ed./, Prentice Hall, 1993. ISBN 0-13-678996-X
>
> [38] Christoph Rauscher, /Fundamentals of Spectrum Analysis/, Rohde
> &
> Schwarz, ISBN: 978-3-939837-00-8
>
> [39] Staff, /Environmental Conditions and Test Procedures for
> Airborne
> Equipment, DO-160E,/ RTCA, Inc., 2004
>
> [41] Madhavan Swaminathan and A. Ege Engin, /Power Integrity
> Modeling
> and Design for Semiconductors and Systems,/ Prentice Hall, 2008.
> ISBN:
> 0-13-615206-6
>
> [42] Staff of Wavecrest, "Oscilloscope - Getting Started," Wavecrest
>
> 2001.
>
http://www.wavecrest.com/technical/VISI_6_Getting_Started_Guides/6oscillo
scope.pdf
>
>
>
> [44] Wikipedia, "Electronic test equipment"
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_test_equipment
>
> [45] Wikipedia, "Insulated-gate bipolar transistor"
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IGBT
>
> [46] A. B. Williams & F. J. Taylor, /Electronic Filter Design
> Handbook,
> 3^rd Ed./, McGraw-Hill, 1995.
>
> [47] Staff X2Y, "App Note # 3008, V1, Get the Most from X2Y
> Capacitors
> with Proper Attachment Techniques," X2Y Attenuators, LLC. 2/23/2006.
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> <#_ftnref1>
>
>
> Good Luck
>
> Roy Leventhal
>
>
>
> Avtaar Singh wrote:
> > Gurus:
> > Can someone please name the Top 5 Signal Integrity schools in the
> US, for
> > me?
> >
> > Thanks for the kind help!
> >
> > Regards,
> > Avtaar
> >
> >
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