[SI-LIST] Re: AW: Re: Experiences with Nelco N4000-13 EPSI
- From: "Bill Hargin \(Nan Ya, USA\)" <billh@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <leeritchey@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>, <Gert.Havermann@xxxxxxxxxxx>, <mervin.jacob@xxxxxxxxxxx>, <si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2015 11:47:52 -0800
Hi Julia ...
Going back to the original question, the context is "readily available in
China," and "short, 28G chip-to-chip applications." As Bruce said, the China
question is really for your fabricator over there, or for Park Nelco.
Looking at this material for short 28G chip to chip applications.
Is this a popular material? How is the availability of this material at board
shops in China?
The cost is significantly lower than Megtron-6. Other than lower loss, are
there any advantages of Megtron-6 vs this Nelco N4000-13 EPSI?
The general rule is to use the cheapest material that gives you a comfortable
design margin - and there are all kinds of alternatives beyond going directly
to one of the more expensive materials out of the gate.
The devil's in the details. Is that "G" intended to mean "Gbps" or "GHz"? The
difference is important. Does "short" mean 1 inch, 2.5 inches, 5 inches, or
maybe 10 inches? The difference may not seem to be significant, but in terms
of signal degradation, material selection, and cost, it makes a big difference.
It sounds like you're on the edge of selecting a really expensive material.
The "SI" (in the Nelco naming convention) means low-Dk glass - most likely
doubling the price over N4000-13 EP, and reducing availability by a factor of
10. (Basic supply and demand economics.)
Low Dk glass generally pays for itself on longer run lengths than you may be
considering ... So, my advice would be to fill in some of the blanks on this,
sharpen your pencil and work out your loss budget and differential skew
requirements - in addition to asking the availability-in-China question.
Hope this helps ...
Bill Hargin
Director of North American Sales and Marketing
Nan Ya Copper-Clad Laminates
billh@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ▪ 425-301-4425 ▪ Skype: bill.hargin
-----Original Message-----
From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [
mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Lee Ritchey
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 8:55 AM
To: Gert.Havermann@xxxxxxxxxxx; mervin.jacob@xxxxxxxxxxx; si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: AW: Re: Experiences with Nelco N4000-13 EPSI
Prepregs self cure over time and cease to be prepregs.
-----Original Message-----
From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [
mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Havermann, Gert
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 2:19 AM
To: mervin.jacob@xxxxxxxxxxx; si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [SI-LIST] AW: Re: Experiences with Nelco N4000-13 EPSI
Moisture isn't the only problem in Stocking Materials (if it were, then drying
the material would result in longer shelf live). It’s the reactivity of the
Material that decreases in time affected by Temperature and Moisture.
Especially Prepregs suffer fast after Production. As a rule of Thumb, Prepregs
can be stored max. 3-6 Months (in a Cool Climate controlled Room in an unopened
originally sealed package, Laminates can be stored 1 year (if they are not used
for multilayer, then even longer).
This is the reason why PCB maker usually don't have much stock on special
Material that is not currently used in their Production, and Laminate maker do
not stock much of this material, they build to order, resulting in long lead
times for Materials that are not widely used.
BR
Gert
----------------------------------------
Absender ist HARTING Electronics GmbH, Marienwerderstraße 3, D-32339 Espelkamp;
Registergericht: Amtsgericht Bad Oeynhausen; Register-Nr.: HRB 8808;
Vertretungsberechtigte Geschäftsführer: Dipl.-Kfm. Edgar-Peter Düning,
Dipl.-Ing. Torsten Ratzmann, Dipl.-Wirtschaftsing. Ralf Martin Klein,
Dipl.-Ing. Uwe Gräff
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [
mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] Im
Auftrag von Mervin Jacob
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 5. November 2015 10:43
An: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Betreff: [SI-LIST] Re: Experiences with Nelco N4000-13 EPSI
Hi,
Is this material absorb moisture quickly than other material?
So may be stock this material will be avoided.
Regards,
Mervin
On 11/5/2015 6:51 AM, Qin, Zhen Shui (Coriant - CN/Shanghai) wrote:
Hi Julia,
I think you can direct contact the vendors for the availability of materials,
they will be very happy to help you on that. For Megtron-6, the lead time is
about a month in China, while much shorter for the (G) version since they
were produced in Guangdong, China.
It is obviously that these two materials are different level materials, you
can get this conclusion just from their datasheets.
As for your specified case, a simulation is highly recommended before you
make your decision.
Best Regards,
Bruce
-----Original Message-----
From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Julia Gillard
Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2015 7:13 PM
To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [SI-LIST] Experiences with Nelco N4000-13 EPSI
Hi :)
Anyone with experiences in designing with Nelco N4000-13 EPSI materials?
(Datasheet - http://www.parkelectro.com/parkelectro/images/n4000-13ep.pdf)
Looking at this material for short 28G chip to chip applications.
Is this a popular material? How is the availability of this material at board
shops in China?
The cost is significantly lower than Megtron-6. Other than lower loss, are
there any advantages of Megtron-6 vs this Nelco N4000-13 EPSI?
Any other alternatives I should consider?
Cheers,
Julia
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