I agree with Lee, microstrip works just fine for flex circuits with a cover layer. High performance stripline is also achievable in a flexible assembly if you crosshatch the planes. To do this, you need to do a bit of engineering homework in order to achieve controlled impedance and low loss. scott Lee Ritchey wrote: > Itzhtal, > > I use both polyamide based flex material and Liquid Crystal Polymer from > Rogers. Both work well. LCP has lower loss. > > The reason that stripline is usually not used in flex circuits is that > makes a 3 layer assembly which is not very flexible. There is nothing > wrong with microstrip. Works fine. > > Lee Ritchey > > > > > >> [Original Message] >> From: Hirshtal Itzhak <ihirshtal@xxxxxxxxxx> >> To: Havermann, Gert <Gert.Havermann@xxxxxxxxxxx>; <si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> >> Date: 11/29/2009 4:00:51 AM >> Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: AW: Multi-Giga-Hertz Rigid-Flex Feasibility >> >> Hello Gert >> >> First - thank you for your contribution. >> >> I have a few questions regarding your email: >> >> 1) You refer to a trace width of 0.8mm as "small". This is a 31.5mil >> > width, which I hardly call "small"! I regularly use 3-4 mil trace widths in > my designs. Is there something different in Flex circuits, which enforces > me to use such LARGE traces (compared to my regular traces)? > >> 2) I see the problem you mention for the Microstrip configuration. Is it >> > common to use Stripline on a flex circuit? I was told this is impractical, > although I'm not sure what the reason is. > >> Thanks >> >> Itzhak Hirshtal >> Elta >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] >> > On Behalf Of Havermann, Gert > >> Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 4:19 PM >> To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >> Subject: [SI-LIST] AW: Multi-Giga-Hertz Rigid-Flex Feasibility >> >> Hello Itzhak , >> >> All Polimide (Kapton) materials will do the job from a loss and >> > dispersion prospective. The tolerance you mention seems to be unreasonable > high for an etching tolerance. I did Flex designs with impedance control, > 100Ohm +/-10Ohm, 0.8mm tracewidth without problems (of corse I had to pay > extra for the small trace width). > >> If you refer to an impedance tolerance due to bending and surrounding >> > material, thats another story. If you design it in microstrip (as you are > planning it), then everithing touching the flex might change your > impedance. Designing it in stripline decreases the flexibility of the flex > and increases cost. > >> Look for Dupont, Grace Electron or Shengyi Flex materials for more info. >> >> BR >> Gert >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Absender ist HARTING Electronics GmbH & Co. KG; Sitz der Gesellschaft: >> > Espelkamp; Registergericht: Bad Oeynhausen; Register-Nr.: HRA 5596; > persönlich haftende Gesellschafterin: HARTING Electronics Management GmbH; > Sitz der Komplementär-GmbH: Espelkamp; Registergericht der > Komplementär-GmbH: Bad Oeynhausen; Register-Nr. der Komplementär-GmbH: HRB > 8808; Geschäftsführer: Torsten Ratzmann > >> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- >> >> Von: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] >> > Im Auftrag von Hirshtal Itzhak > >> Gesendet: Dienstag, 24. November 2009 14:21 >> An: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >> Betreff: [SI-LIST] Multi-Giga-Hertz Rigid-Flex Feasibility >> >> Hello All >> >> >> My project manager intends to use a rigid-flex design in our next >> > high-speed board. > >> >> >> He wants to route a few pairs of 3.125GHz from a rigid section to another >> > one through a flex section. > >> >> >> Does anyone know if this is feasible? I found out that the 2 sections, >> > although spec'd to be 100-Ohm diff impedance, can still differ > substantially - as much as 30%, because the tolerance of the flex section > is +/-20%. Can such a design work for a substantial trace length? Should I > restrict the trace length on the flex section to be no more than an inch or > so, in order to reduce the impact of the supposed non-uniform impedance? > >> >> >> I intend to use a 2-layer flexible laminate with the pairs on one layer >> > and a Ground reference on the other one. > >> >> >> Any advice on this matter would be helpful >> >> >> >> Thanks >> >> >> >> Itzhak hirshtal >> >> >> >> >> >> The information contained in this communication is proprietary to Israel >> > Aerospace Industries Ltd., ELTA Systems Ltd. > >> and/or third parties, may contain classified or privileged information, >> > and is intended only for the use of the intended addressee thereof. If you > are not the intended addressee, please be aware that any use, disclosure, > distribution and/or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. > >> If you receive this communication in error, please notify the sender >> > immediately and delete it from your computer. Thank you. > >> This message is processed by the PrivaWall Email Security Server. >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------ >> To unsubscribe from si-list: >> si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field >> >> or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: >> //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list >> >> For help: >> si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field >> >> >> List technical documents are available at: >> http://www.si-list.net >> >> List archives are viewable at: >> //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list >> >> Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: >> http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu >> >> >> >> >> http://www.mesago.de/de/SPS/main.htm >> Besuchen Sie uns auf der SPS/IPC/Drives 2009 >> vom 24. - 26. November 2009 in Nürnberg, in Halle 10 am Stand 130. >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------ >> To unsubscribe from si-list: >> si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field >> >> or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: >> //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list >> >> For help: >> si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field >> >> >> List technical documents are available at: >> http://www.si-list.net >> >> List archives are viewable at: >> //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list >> >> Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: >> http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu >> >> >> >> This message is processed by the PrivaWall Email Security Server. >> >> >> >> >> The information contained in this communication is proprietary to Israel >> > Aerospace Industries Ltd., ELTA Systems Ltd. > >> and/or third parties, may contain classified or privileged information, >> > and is intended only for > >> the use of the intended addressee thereof. 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