[SI-LIST] Re: AW: HFSS or CST

  • From: "Mike Heimlich" <mike@xxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: "Yuri Tretiakov, PhD" <yuric@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>, <si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 22:23:22 -0700

Hi Yuri:
For the AWR EM tool, I think you are confusing their old tool, EMSight, with 
what I was referring to which is their new tool, AXIEM.  You are correct in 
comparing EMSight to Sonnet as they are both gridded method-of-moments 
techniques.  However, AXIEM uses an gridless hybrid mesh which will mesh the 
metal and solve the currents in 3D.

MikeH

-----Original Message-----
From: Yuri Tretiakov, PhD [mailto:yuric@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] 
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 2:47 PM
To: Mike Heimlich; Havermann,Gert; si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [SI-LIST] Re: AW: HFSS or CST

Here are a few things about EM tools I worked with in the past:


-- IE3D from Zeland is the way to go. Not expensive, support is excellent and 
it can handle true 3D structures like bondwires, solder balls or long (a few 
100um long) package or PCB board vias.
It is the only one method of moments based tool which can mesh true 3D 
structures.

-- Sonnet has a major issue when setting up this tool everything has to be on 
grid.This is due to fact that it uses FFT to solve the method of moments 
matrix. I had a very hard time when setting up simple test cases therefore I 
gave up with this tool.

-- EM tool from AWR is very similar to Sonnet and in fact certain features look 
very identical to the Sonnet tool. Therefore I will not recommend it at this 
point.

-- CST: I gave up with this engine since I couldn't even get correct simulation 
results for a simple test case as a GaAs inductor.

-- HFSS: not bad and price is less than $100k a license. I know a couple of 
excellent support engineers there on whom I can rely on
if I have any technical issues when using HFSS.

But if you just starting in using EM tools and don't have a big budget then I 
would try IE3D first. It used to be about $25K a license and it does now 
support multi-threading and therefore it is a very fast method-of-moments based 
tool.

Regards


Yuri


-----Original Message-----
>From: Mike Heimlich <mike@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>Sent: Apr 19, 2009 1:45 AM
>To: "Havermann, Gert" <Gert.Havermann@xxxxxxxxxxx>, si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: AW: HFSS or CST
>
>You should also consider 3D planar solves as you maybe able to get your 
>problem solved in less time, with a less-capable computer, and even save some 
>money.  This would especially be the case if you are NOT doing truly 3D 
>things, like bondwires.  Some solvers in this category (in no particular 
>order)...
>
>AWR's AXIEM  http://web.awrcorp.com/Usa/Products/AXIEM-3D-Planar-EM/
>Sonnet's EM  http://www.sonnetsoftware.com/products/sonnet-suites/
>Zeland's IE3D http://www.zeland.com/
>
>Regards,
>MikeH
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On 
>Behalf Of Havermann, Gert
>Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 8:22 AM
>To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: [SI-LIST] AW: HFSS or CST
>
>Besides the compatibility with other tools in your designflow (CAD, CAM, 
>PCB...) and the applications you are working on (Antennas, PCBs, 
>Connectors...) you should also look for Hardware comatibility. Each of the 
>solvers has a different way to run the simulations, and depending on the 
>hardware one is quicker than the other (CST for instance works best with a 
>very fast FSB).
>
>From my point of view both tools give you very accurate results (if you use 
>them correctly), thus it is speed and compatibility that should matter.
>
>Cost is not easy to compare, because both tools come with a different 
>licensing scheme. You have to choose which features you need, and very often 
>there are features included in licensing packages that you might not need. 
>Hardware acceleration and simultanious computing is something you should 
>consider. Depending on the type of simulation you are running, you might want 
>to simulate several ports in parallel, od maybe simulate different parameters 
>separately. This is also different for both tools.
>
>You should make a list about what you need:
>-type of simulation
>-number of ports
>-parameter sweep/optimization, Yes/No?
>-do you want to use existing hardware?
>-CAD/CAM interface?
>-Data export?
>.
>.
>.
>
>Send the list to the sales reps. and ask for a quote and testlicense. If you 
>have 3D or CAM data you would like to simulate, let them do a benchmark on 
>your structures.
>
>If in the end you still don't know...just pick one, they are both great.
>
>BR
>Gert
> 
>
>
>Please visit us at the Hannover Messe from April 20 to 24, 2009.
>You can find us in hall 11, stand C13.
> http://www.hannovermesse.de/ 
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>haftende Gesellschafterin: HARTING Electronics Management GmbH; Sitz der 
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>Torsten Ratzmann
>-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
>
>
>Von: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] Im 
>Auftrag von Sanjay G
>Gesendet: Mittwoch, 15. April 2009 12:16
>An: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Betreff: [SI-LIST] HFSS or CST
>
>Hello
>I have the option of buying either HFSS or CST.
>Which one should I buy? which is better? and How much is the approx. cost 
>difference.
>Thanks
>
>
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