[SI-LIST] Re: AW: AW: Effect of temperature on at 200C for DDR3/4 boards
- From: "Loyer, Jeff" <jeff.loyer@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: "Havermann, Gert" <Gert.Havermann@xxxxxxxxxxx>, Alexander Ippich <Alexander.Ippich@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>, "si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 08:23:48 -0800
One thing that will probably happen at this temperature is any humidity in the
board will be baked out, decreasing loss, especially in the outer layers. I
would be sure you're margining the system in your expected environmental
conditions, after giving it enough time to dry out.
Jeff Loyer
-----Original Message-----
From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Havermann, Gert
Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2009 7:29 AM
To: Alexander Ippich; si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [SI-LIST] AW: AW: Effect of temperature on at 200C for DDR3/4 boards
Hi Alexander,
thanks for the datasheet, maybe it was the wrong file you attached, but Chart 2
shows Dk over frequency.
Anyhow, the Dk over temperature is quite stable even for PTFE (<1% doesn't
worry me).
I don't know if the Df will also change. If it does, that just adds more losses
to the copper losses I mentioned, but doesn't affect the characteristic
impedance.
BR
Gert
PS I'm still not worried...;-)
Happy holydays everyone.
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-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Alexander Ippich [mailto:Alexander.Ippich@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 16. Dezember 2009 16:10
An: Havermann, Gert; si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Betreff: RE: [SI-LIST] AW: Effect of temperature on at 200C for DDR3/4 boards
Hi Gert, Barthi,
some base material suppliers are showing the changes of dielectric constant and
dissipation factor over frequency in their data sheets.
I have attached one example (please delete the string "delete" in front of the
web link, but w/o, the list server will mangle the long adress).
deletehttp://www.rogerscorp.com/documents/726/acm/RO4000-Laminates---data-sheet-and-fabrication-guidelines-RO4003C-RO4350B.aspx
Charts #1 and #2 show the variation of Dk and Df over temperatures normalized
to the values at 25 deg C. For this particular material, Dk shows only a minor
change from ambient to 100 deg C, but Df is already changing around 5%.
Best regards,
alex
__________________________________________________________________
Alexander Ippich
Sr. Signal Integrity Engineer
Multek Germany
Multilayer Technology GmbH & Co. KG
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Creating value that increases customer competitiveness
-----Original Message-----
From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Havermann, Gert
Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2009 3:49 PM
To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [SI-LIST] AW: Effect of temperature on at 200C for DDR3/4 boards
Hi Barthi,
Your question is how the characteristic impedance of the PCB is affected by
high temperatures (100°C)?
The Temperature shouldn't have a big influence on impedance. The series
resistance will increase, but the result will just be higher losses. The board
sice will increase with temperature, but each differential pair will just see
fractions of this extra size, in my eyes not enough to worry about impedance
changes.
I don't think you have to worry about temperature related impedance changes on
regular PCB at all, but I can't proof that with simulations or measurements.
BR
Gert
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Absender ist HARTING Electronics GmbH & Co. KG; Sitz der Gesellschaft:
Espelkamp; Registergericht: Bad Oeynhausen; Register-Nr.: HRA 5596; persönlich
haftende Gesellschafterin: HARTING Electronics Management GmbH; Sitz der
Komplementär-GmbH: Espelkamp; Registergericht der Komplementär-GmbH: Bad
Oeynhausen; Register-Nr. der Komplementär-GmbH: HRB 8808; Geschäftsführer:
Torsten Ratzmann -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] Im
Auftrag von Barthi das
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 16. Dezember 2009 12:57
An: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Betreff: [SI-LIST] Effect of temperature on at 200C for DDR3/4 boards
Hi,
What is the effect of temperature (200C) on characteristic impedance at DDR3/4
speeds and what the best way to control the impedance because of the temp
effect? Appreciate if anyone sends the literature related to the topic
Thanks
Barthi
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