[SI-LIST] Re: 3D EM -accuracy
- From: <kelvin.harding@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2013 13:57:11 +0000
Hi cris
Any idea which group Sonnet, AWR Axiem and Feko fit and which of them
is suitable for via modelling and connector breakouts at 1GHz and above?
Regards,
Kelvin
On 2013-03-19 09:25, Cristian Gozzi wrote:
> Hi folks
> let me add something more about this topic.
>
> You have to distinguish between 3D Field solver and which kind of
> Numerical
> method is used to solve Maxwell�s Equations:
>
> talking about 3D solver you have different kind of numerical methods
> and
> approximation:
>
> A) 3D Quasi-Static (BEM, DC FEM etc.)
>
> B) 3D Full-Wave (FEM, FDTD etc.)
>
> A) 3D Quasi-Static (like Ansys Q3D or Sentinel-NPE, Cadence ExtractIM
> and
> others) approximates the field time variant to zero and extract E and
> H
> field separately --> this will means a lumped RLCG extraction of your
> interconnection
>
> This lumped model does not take into account for any delay nor any
> skin
> depth or radiation effect and usually it�s accurate enough if your
> transition (VIA in your case) is small enough compared to wavelength
> (<<
> lambda/6) or more conservative << lambda/10
>
> this means that your field propagation inside the transition is almost
> time
> invariant (quasi-static) so a lumped representation, without the HF
> effects, is good
>
> B) 3D Full-Wave (Like Ansys HFSS or Sentinel-PSI, CST Microwave Office
> etc.) use the rigorous Maxwell�s equation to solve the transition
> effect
> and the model is valid from DC up to the highest frequency of your
> freq.
> sweep analysis
>
> these tools take into account the delay effect, radiation and
> skin-depth
> and they output S-parameter model (distributed model)
>
> Usually it�s important to use these toosl when the transition
> electrical
> dimension is more larger than lambda/6
>
> I loaded in goolge/drive a short introduction to these topics
>
> https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B9f_MeFAFByLVU4zYVMzX0hQQkE/edit?usp
> =sharing
>
> I hope this help
>
> Regards
> Cris
>
>
>
>
> 2013/3/19 Balaji G <bala89si@xxxxxxxxx>
>
>> Balamanikandan,
>> I believe Gert answered this question already. Its not that the
>> 3D
>> modeling improves accuracy at high speeds, 3D modeling MUST be done
>> at high
>> speeds. It is not that only recommended, It should be followed. A
>> more
>> accurate result depends on good modeling and that depends on taking
>> many
>> variables, boundaries in to account. In your intuition you can just
>> guess
>> that 3D modeling considers more. Hence at high speeds one may not
>> trust the
>> traditional rules of thumb & model, , say considering pi model for
>> via.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Balaji
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 19, 2013 at 11:35 AM, Balamanikandan K
>> <kbmanick@xxxxxxxxx
>>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>> I know very well that 3D EM modelling is recommended for via
>>> and
>>> connectors etc if we go for a high speed design.
>>>
>>> I would like to know how the accuracy is improved if we use 3D
>>> EM
>> when
>>> the frequency is in GHZ.
>>>
>>> Please explain the accuracy with frequency with respect to 3D
>>> EM.
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Best Regards,
>>> Balamanikandan.K
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe from si-list:
>>> si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject
>>> field
>>>
>>> or to administer your membership from a web page, go to:
>>> //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list
>>>
>>> For help:
>>> si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field
>>>
>>>
>>> List forum is accessible at:
>>> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list
>>>
>>> List archives are viewable at:
>>> //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list
>>>
>>> Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at:
>>> http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe from si-list:
>> si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field
>>
>> or to administer your membership from a web page, go to:
>> //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list
>>
>> For help:
>> si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field
>>
>>
>> List forum is accessible at:
>> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list
>>
>> List archives are viewable at:
>> //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list
>>
>> Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at:
>> http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu
>>
>>
>>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from si-list:
> si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field
>
> or to administer your membership from a web page, go to:
> //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list
>
> For help:
> si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field
>
>
> List forum is accessible at:
> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list
>
> List archives are viewable at:
> //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list
>
> Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at:
> http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu
------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe from si-list:
si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field
or to administer your membership from a web page, go to:
//www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list
For help:
si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field
List forum is accessible at:
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list
List archives are viewable at:
//www.freelists.org/archives/si-list
Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at:
http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu
Other related posts:
