The converse of what Doris has said is also true...there are people who manage to buy a good one right out of the box...whether by luck or planning, who knows--sometimes all it takes is money. I have found over the years that a lot of people start off right, have a little luck, and stop learning right there....they can often buy a good one, maybe even a few good ones, but they can't breed them. In this breed it is harder for people like this to learn, too, because sometimes they do learn what handler to hire, and even if it takes a while, or longer than it would if the dog were good enough in the first place, they are content with their Champions...but they never learn why their Champions are "not quite" good enough -- not good enough to go Select, not good enough for people to ship good bitches to for breeding, and not good enough to be sought after in any other way, either. There is another phenomenon in the dog world...that of the "clique." You all know what I mean...if you are friends with so-and-so, you'll never be friends with this one or that one, because those two don't like so-and-so... you are all too often known by the friends you made in the breed, instead of for yourself. This does happen in all breeds, I'm sure, but it seems overwhelming in the GSD world. When I started judging, I was asked (by people in AKC who knew me) why I waited a few years to ask for approval to judge Shepherds...I said I wanted to be sure I could handle the politics...and then, when I moved over and finished the Terrier Group, one of the top Terrier men asked me why I'd waited so long to finish the group. He laughed when I told him...I wanted to be sure I could handle the politics...but once you can judge Shepherds without giving in to the pressures, the Terrier group is nothing. He didn't believe it...but I am here to tell you, it's true. Leave the quality of the dogs out of it -- the German Shepherd ring is the most political dog show arena I've ever seen. No wonder people have a hard time breaking into it............! Peggy Doris E wrote: >I think that many times some of the newer people in the Breed get an >attitude that they don't need any help to find a superior dog. I have >seen this many times through the years, and was probably guilty myself >early on. When they get a dog that is non-competitive, they try for a >while, and then fall by the wayside. Too bad not to have found a >trustworthy mentor. Many of these folks would probably still be showing >dogs. (and winning) > > ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2006. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - URL temporarily deleted due to AOL issues ============================================================================