Sean write...I can see your point... HOWEVER... next weekend in Delaware they're are something like 7 Shepherds entered. We have all but one I think. Though this is not the norm, on this weekend, we pretty much controlled the options. The judge will put one of the 7 BOB, and one of them will go to group. And for a descent size all-breed.... spectators and owners in our area will not get a true picture of GSDs (not to discredit any of the dogs we're showing... we actually do have nice dogs going in prep for the National). BUT... the point is... the entry on this weekend does not permit the judge to have much say. We as handlers had much more influence by choosing the dogs we did to show. Though the judge is the final step in the equation... they can only work with what they have. My point is... to say the judge is responsible, is letting others get off too easy in my opinion. Paul opines... One of your 7 will take the Breed and go to the Group. If the "1" is the best and closest to the Standard the Judge has done a great job. And...if the Group Judge is knowledgeable and rewards your dog...he too...has done a great job. And...if the spectators ringside are knowledgeable and appreciate your dog and take that image away as correct...that too is a great result. My point is to say if Judges are knowledgeable and put up good dogs close to the Standard...then Breeders breed to those dogs to create more good dogs...the circle should be complete and the breed will benefit. While it is very true breeders bear a great responsibility in what they breed...I believe a lot of what they breed is based on the success of the dogs Judges put up. Paul ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2005. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://www.showgsd.org ============================================================================