Helen, I remember the very tail end of the large number days. In a huge class you had one or two contenders and the rest wouldn't make it out of today's pet pile. Now, the puzzle for me is how in the "old days" you had so many people willing to run around with a dog that didn't have a chance in hell of finishing. The same holds true for the numbers you reference from the SV. A few are good ones, many aren't. Today, the only people we see dragging dogs around without a shot are newbies. Then, bless their hearts, they either smarten up or go broke. If they smarten up, they show up the following season with a better specimen. Most of "us" don't start a dog who couldn't finish, or, if we're on the fence, we might give them a handful of shows to see what we think. If I don't have something competitive in a particular situation, I can have a great time at a show without showing anything. In fact, I have a MUCH better time than if I brought something and lost. We'll probably see a lot of posts on the economy, the cost of handlers, limited family time etc., etc., but if those were the "only" reasons, the SV's numbers wouldn't still be as high as they are, so, personally, I discount those reasons. They've made it fun for the losers. How? So....they've managed to do is make it fun for the folks without a shot. I "get it" when it comes to performance sports. It's fun to get a dog to be the best they can and qualify. It's fun to work hard and do a better job than you did last week. I get it. For me that doesn't extend to the breed ring. You can work as hard as you want, but you won't change structure, and dragging a dog around that doesn't have a shot...well, it's just not that appealing. How our clubs made it appealing in the past and how the SV does it today...I just don't know. Here's an analogy: My nephew, who is five, is on a ski team. At the end of the season they had some kind of a race event. He called my parents, ecstatic, that he'd won a medal. The results/times were on line, so Dad printed them out. Well, heck, everyone who managed to stay upright won a medal! That's OK when you're five. I get it. I don't get it at fifteen, twenty five etc., any more than I "get" taking a dog to the breed ring that doesn't have a prayer. JMO Kathy, member GSDCA, DVGSDC Celebrating generations of Dual Titled TC'd Champions visit www.geocities.com/pinehillgsds In a message dated 4/28/2009 10:52:12 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, RChesnut70502@xxxxxxx writes: In a message dated 4/28/2009 9:21:18 P.M. Central Daylight Time, helenfranklin520@xxxxxxx writes: REPLY: In the 60's and 70's, we had to get a second judge when the entry went over 100.? The open class alone had over 20.? You don't see that there's a problem?? There is a VERY BIG problem.? Shows in the U.S. that are SV shows draw over 400.? The boy scouts are going to another venue, perhaps because they can participate in the show.? A show of 30, total entry, is absurd.? The ship is sinking and the boy scouts aren't around to save us.? DO THE MATH!? Records live, opinions die. Helen I remember with clarity the 60's and 70's. Those were the Golden Years. Now, for whatever reason, those days are gone, probably forever. Why does there have to be a problem? My life, as well as most, have many more problems today than the good ole 60's and 70's. Personally I could care less how many participants are in the S.V. shows. They have nothing I am interested in. That does not make me wrong on them right. It is just the way it is! Anyone can participate in our shows. Most choose not to. As for the ship sinking, maybe it is, but its my ship. Since you quoted Ralph and Mary Roberts, for whatever reason, I will quote (paraphrase) Fran & Joan Ford. "Shepherds don't move on their ears." Makes no sense, but neither did your quote. Here is my quote "Don't build up the S.V. by degrading the GSDC of America." Not a nice, or positive way to cure the Problem. Randy C. **************Access 350+ FREE radio stations anytime from anywhere on the web. Get the Radio Toolbar! (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolradio/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000003) ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2008. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. 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ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://showgsd.org NATIONAL BLOG - http://gsdnational.blogspot.com/ ============================================================================