I may not have years behind me, but from my research and studies of the genetics of coat color, I do not believe there has ever been any evidence at all showing that the color white pales colors. Speculation passed down from generation to generation yes - evidence, no. What does happen is that the color white masks, and as such they can be masking pale colors. Using any whites in a breeding program that do not exhibit the rich intense black pigment on nose, eye rims, lips, pads and toenails (ie: have poor pigment) can indeed lead to paling colors in a breeding program....and that is not the white gene at fault for pale colors. And then to match those dogs up in a breeding program that already has paling colors....well the end result is continued paling colors getting doubled up over and over again. But that is only my humble input... Judy in MN ----- Original Message ----- From: Miss Hereford Having bred dogs for nearly 50 years I am familiar with, and have owned and produced (certainly something I am not proud of, but will admit to), color paled dogs. From my experience, color paling results from adding too much white to a breeding program that involves colored dogs......And also from my experience, if once color paling shows itself you continue to add white, you then will see a loss of pigment - white nails and eyes that are not black or are very light. ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2005. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://www.showgsd.org ============================================================================