----- Original Message ----- "I have to ask was this because of the quality of the animals or the lack of determination of the owners? Terry" That's a good question, Terry. Back about 10 years ago I had two 100% American bitches from my import lines (heeheehee) that I was showing owner handled. One of them did a fair amount of winning her classes (50%), she had a very effortless gait and gorgeous structure, but she was a drab sable with a very plain head, so your initial impression of her was "plain". I think if the right handler had presented her (ack! rachel said someone handle her dogs besides her????) she would have gotten her championship. The other little bitch was actually not as nice structurally or as good a mover, but she was drop dead gorgeous to look at, with a Marilyn Monroe head & eyes. She won all her classes, but she hated showing, I mean she'd look at me with a "we're not gonna do that show ring crap again, are we?" and she just did not have a winner's bitch shine, know what I mean? BUT, I think if I had worked harder, and I mean devoted my life to it, I could have gotten her championship, also. It was the same for this little bitch in SV style showing. She lost out being SG-1 in the young dog class because of her attitude. The German judge told me she was the better dog, and tried to buy her from me to take back to germany!! She was a great SAR tracking dog, a great agility dog, but not a lover of show or obedience competition. So, I think these two, even though both had slight limitations, won enough that had I persevered, they would both have finished. I also was letting the anti-import insult thing get to me, so, yes, it was me, not their quality. I would also say that a good 75% of the judges gave us a fair look. Rachel & the Merry Christmas & Happy Holidays Ark "The whole question is not only a question of the dog/horse, but quite as much, if not more so, a question of the fitness of the leader." Max v Stephanitz Proud to be an American Working Dog Kennel http://segensreich.homestead.com http://www.workingdog.org ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2004. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://www.showgsd.org ============================================================================