In a message dated 3/25/2006 6:34:24 PM Central Standard Time, Pinehillgsds@xxxxxxx writes: I'm talking about somebody saying something isn't show quality and breeding it. the very things that keep it from being show quality are going to come back to bother a breeder in future generations. ---------------------------------------------- You're going to have those "very things" come up if they exist in the perfect bitches genetic makeup. While you can use phenotype as a tool to judge what a breeding pair might potentially produce, you should never assume that the phenotype in any one breeding partner, or even in both breeding partners, is all you can expect in the litter. Genetics just isn't that simple. In fact ... genetics is not even close to that simple. You can do what you wish, but believing that less than perfect bitches are not good enough to be foundation bitches is an opinion not shared by most, if not all of the greatest dog breeders of any breed, or any species for that matter. In fact, all bitches are less than perfect, even if they appear to be very close to the standard in phenotype. This whole thread has been driving me nutty, but it does explain how some folks can simplify breeding to the point that they can blame every breed problem on any breeder who's dog ever showed or produced a problem. Give me the one "unshowable" bitch in a litter of great ones anytime. It's her siblings and her ancestors that can tell you how she will produce ... not the few faults that keeps her from being perfect herself. Tom Langlitz ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2006. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - URL temporarily deleted due to AOL issues ============================================================================