Steve is correct....those are the instructions from AKC. You can not question the entry on it's eligibility. Next thing you know, people will want the judge to ask who needs BOW for a major. Kay ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve D" <cimarrongsd@xxxxxxxx> To: tashina1@xxxxxxxxxxxxx, pcooke212@xxxxxxxxxxx, showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Friday, January 25, 2013 4:05:43 PM Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: veteran and best of breed, I judged a show a couple of months ago that involved a veteran. I did not know if the dog was a champion or not. I asked the superintendent how this is handled, and they said the akc would sort it out. So if I awarded the veteran, BOB or BOS or Select, the akc would determine if points were warranted. (Shure hoop I ditn't misspiel anythaing) /steve d. Visit Cimarron Shepherds on the Web! http://www.cimarron-gsd.com/ http://www.gsdcstl.org/ Happiness is German Shepherd slobber on your car window. -----Original Message----- From: showgsd-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:showgsd-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Brenda Shepard Sent: Friday, January 25, 2013 5:14 PM To: pcooke212@xxxxxxxxxxx; showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: veteran and best of breed, I think if a Veteran is awarded Select and is not a Champion of record then the handler/agent should inform the judge of this. So therefore those select points can be awarded to a Champion. Brenda -----Original Message----- From: Paula M. Cooke Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2013 11:30 PM To: showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: veteran and best of breed, Sorry, but, Veteran's class is judged prior to BOB at All-Breed Shows. Harley won his 99th and 100th BOB from the Veteran's Class. (He is NOT neutered, BTW, so please don't start yet another rumor about him) :-) :-) He also has won Selects over Specials from the Veteran's Class at all-breeds and at specialties. You are mixing apples and oranges. Some all-breed shows do have Best Veteran's just as they do Best Puppy, but, even then, the regular Veteran Class is judged prior to the BOB and the winner(s) of the Veteran's class competes in and against the Specials, along with the WD and WB. (Just as puppies compete for WD/WB before going in for the extra non-regular Best Puppy competition) They can, and do, go Best of Breed. Neutered Veteran's can not compete at all-breed shows, only specialties. At our National, Veteran's starts at 7, as do most all-breed and specialty shows. I have never seen a regular all-breed premium list that does not offer Veteran's Classes. There are Grand Champion points awarded to any Veteran winning BOB, BOS, or Select at any and all dog shows. The judge does not know if the dog/bitch is a champion or not. It is up to the AKC to calculate the GCH points. Does this clarify it at all for you? Paula, 259 days and counting Home of 2012 GSDCA Dual Title EXCELLENT Award Recipient, 2 Time AKC JAM/AOE, International Champion, Canadian Champion, & American Silver Grand Champion, Asgard Harley Davidson, HT, PT, CGC, TC, HIC, OFA CHIC #64047 (Original Version), 1st male GSD Grand Champion. 2010 #1 GSD in California, Lifetime #1 GSD in Michigan, 2010 #1 GSD male in USA (AKC GCH Stats), 2011 Westminster Kennel Club Dog Show Invitee, Lifetime AKC Eukanuba Invitee. 2 Time Cruft's Invitee. ---------- Original Message ---------- Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 00:00:27 -0500 Subject: veteran and best of breed, From: Michele Panetta <rockstarshepherds@xxxxxxxxx> At breed specialties they can have a veteran class starting at age 7plus. the winners of these classes dogs and bitches can compete for Best Of Breed and can win. At Nationals the age usually starts at 8yrs plus There are no veteran classes at all breed shows unless its a special competition. after Best of Breed is chosen the veterans compete. the best Veteran then competes in the Veteran Group. They go on to Best in Show Veteran not the regular Best In Show Since there are no points from the Best of Breed class most breed clubs offer veterans. They can also earn a JAM (Judges Award of Merit) We've had a Veteran take Best of Breed and Best Opposite Sex at one of our Golden nationals. I love with they can still kick some ass and show they still have it. Michele Rock Star Shepherds ============================================================ ================ POST is Copyrighted 2012. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Each Author is responsible for the content of his/her post. This group and its administrators are not responsible for the comments or opinions expressed in any post. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://showgsd.org SUBSCRIPTION:http://showgsd.org/mail.html NATIONAL BLOG - http://gsdnational.blogspot.com/ ============================================================ ================ ============================================================ ================ POST is Copyrighted 2012. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Each Author is responsible for the content of his/her post. This group and its administrators are not responsible for the comments or opinions expressed in any post. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://showgsd.org SUBSCRIPTION:http://showgsd.org/mail.html NATIONAL BLOG - http://gsdnational.blogspot.com/ ============================================================ ================ ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2012. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Each Author is responsible for the content of his/her post. This group and its administrators are not responsible for the comments or opinions expressed in any post. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://showgsd.org SUBSCRIPTION:http://showgsd.org/mail.html NATIONAL BLOG - http://gsdnational.blogspot.com/ ============================================================================ -- -Kay Reamensnyder and Betty Doerpinghaus -Home of Bedkar German Shepherds -AKC Breeders of Merit - bedkar@xxxxx -Visit our Website: www.bedkargsd.com ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2012. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Each Author is responsible for the content of his/her post. This group and its administrators are not responsible for the comments or opinions expressed in any post. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://showgsd.org SUBSCRIPTION:http://showgsd.org/mail.html NATIONAL BLOG - http://gsdnational.blogspot.com/ ============================================================================