[ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: type -sidegait
- From: "robert dir" <dir@xxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <billgsd@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>, <hckryhillgsd@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>, "M. Mike Lynch" <cccaudiology@xxxxxxxxx>, <kennadale@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, <showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 19:36:12 -0600
THANK YOU BILL. It is hard in a large ring to continue to insist on slower
loose lead judging but we must try. I have judged a number of dogs that I
had to insist on slower movement and less more lead to evaluate an animal
that eventually won. When they move like egg beaters all you see is legs
going fast. Sandi
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Basu" <billgsd@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <hckryhillgsd@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>; "M. Mike Lynch" <cccaudiology@xxxxxxxxx>;
<kennadale@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; <showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 1:47 PM
Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: type -sidegait
> I believe that Type is the easier to judge and IMHO over the last 15 years
that i have been doing this i believe TYPE overall has improved(although
with all the talk of color enhancement, i don't know if that aspect has
really improved). We should rejoice in this fact, it is a postive facet of
our breeding programs.
>
> Whether motion has improved in general is hard for me to judge.
>
> Firstly, dogs clean coming and going should be a given for correct motion.
That being said
> CORRECT GSD side motion can only be judged by someone who combines the
knowledge of what correct side motion is with the appropriate ring procedure
that allows the dogs to exhibit this CORRECT motion. Dogs strung up and
racing around the ring as is seen way to often at the National level just
provides the ILLUSION of motion. Suspension cannot be seen with a dog strung
up and racing. True motion can only be judged by the dog truly gaiting on
its own, in the judging ring the judge should try to simulate this by
having a REAL loose lead with the dog gaited an a trotting speed, this IMHO
is the only way to separate the PRETENDERS from the CONTENDERS.Unfortunately
in this aspect too many PRETENDERS get to play on the same field as the
CONTENDERS due to lack of adherence to the REAL loose lead. I believe if
more and more judges were really committed to this aspect(and i know that at
the National level it is hard for judges to continue to enforce this in that
very large ring, but
> i think
> it is well worthwhile the hassle) the CONTENDERS would really rise to the
top..
>
> Bill
>
> P.S. In the perfect world when dogs are asked to show on a real loose lead
at a trot, it would allow more owner(or non-professional) handlers to show
as there would be less ability to manipulate the dog in motion.
>
> Steve Grainger <hckryhillgsd@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Mike..I respectfully disagree. After coming back from this years National
I
> can tell you with the exception of just a couple of dogs and bitches..we
> seem to have type pretty down pat. Males looked like males..and for the
> most part again with the exception of a few, most bitches looked like
> bitches. I saw beautiful head pieces..nice bone...no novice person would
> walk away and say that the GSD's exhibited at this years National did not
> look like GSDs. I saw many beautiful dogs standing..that were damn near
> picture perfect..however what we do have is a problem with shoulders..or a
> lack of them and we are losing our beautiful elastic, ground covering,
> effortless motion.that has been one of the hallmarks of our breed. You
> state that "any mutt can side gait given proper shoulder and rear.."
> Really? A pig could fly IF he had wings,too! Have you given any thought as
> to how difficult it is to obtain a strong driving rear, croup length and
> angle..iron back ..proper should angulation and length along with good
> pastern angles, etc. Now..how hard do you think it is to improve type? You
> can lose motion in one breeding...you can lose type too..but can more
> easily regain it in a breeding. Anyone..I don't care if it is a handler or
> breeder that told you that type is MOST important..must have been
promoting
> a dog that was pretty standing, but lacked good movement! You must have 3
> aspects..type, motion and temperament all treated EQUALLY..ie it MUST LOOK
> like a GSD..males like males..bitches like bitches.The breed must
personify
> strength , hardiness, and athleticisim.it MUST MOVE like a GSD..long
> striding..covering ground with little effort..it MUST ACT like a
> GSD..confident, not shy or tail tucking and of course with a desire to
> please its owner....this is why the GSD in my opinion is one of the most
> difficult breeds to breed correctly..many can get 2 out of 3 correct..but
> getting 3 out of 3 for most would be a once in a lifetime dog. In my
> opinion,anytime you emphasize one desired trait over the other you will
> have problems in obtaining the ideal. Christine Grainger
>
>
> > [Original Message]
> > From: M. Mike Lynch
> > To: ;
> > Date: 11/14/2005 12:40:30 PM
> > Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: type -sidegait
> >
> > Hi Carolyn and everyone,
> >
> > Ok I have sat back and given this type question a lot of thought. In my
> eyes, type reings supreme over sidegait, but it is not to be excluded. I
> learned a long long time ago from a wonderful professional handler about
> breed type... its what makes a GSD a GSD.
> > Simply put, as I was told.. ANY mutt can sidegait correctly given the
> build of the shoulder and rear. DOnt believe me? go to the pound and offer
> to walk a few dogs and youll start to notice, "Gee, too bad this dog isnt
> purebred, he has a faboulous rear"... But does that make it a German
> Shepherd? NO. Its the essence of breed type.. (i.e, gentle curves rather
> than angles, a porportion of 7.5 to 10, deep bodied, and a look of
> eagles)... that makes it a correct german shepherd in my opinion.Sidegait
> alone does not make it a GSD.
> >
> > Now as for sidegait, many times, too much empahsis is placed on Reach
and
> drive, rather than suspension. People say all the time.. "that shepherd
> moves like a dream, look at it reach and drive..." I remind them that a
> shepherd is suppose to suspend as well. Like reach and drive, you get
those
> who suspend more extreme than others, but never the less, it is to be
> counted as part as motion.. AS SHOULD CLEAN (and I do mean CLEAN) coming
> and going away.
> >
> >
> >
> > The one thing I have learned is that none of them are perfect.. be it
> dog, horse or human.. but when you step back, JUDGE THE WHOLE DOG, --not
> just parts-- all those things make up what a GSD is suppose to be.
> >
> > Mike Lynch
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.
> >
> >
>
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>
>
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> POST is Copyrighted 2005. All material remains the property of the
original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS
of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author
AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.
>
> ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY
MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS
PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY
FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE
PROSECUTED.
>
> For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://www.showgsd.org
>
============================================================================
>
>
>
============================================================================
> POST is Copyrighted 2005. All material remains the property of the
original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS
of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author
AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.
>
> ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY
MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS
PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY
FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE
PROSECUTED.
>
> For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://www.showgsd.org
>
============================================================================
============================================================================
POST is Copyrighted 2005. All material remains the property of the original
author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind
are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the
Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.
ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY
MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS
PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY
FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE
PROSECUTED.
For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx
VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://www.showgsd.org
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