[ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: showgsd-l Digest V5 #26
- From: Debbie <xcaliburfarm@xxxxxxx>
- To: showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2011 12:03:59 -0500
Insofar as horse (related to the bloat) are concerned, they are fermenters in
their digestive process so gas. While you or I or dogs for that matter, can
belch, or vomit when our guts are full, horses cannnot. Once down the throat,
it remains til it departs from the other end of things. THIS if why colic is
horses is NOT the same as the bloat in dogs and is therefore not linked as
genetic/heriditary but rather from the nature of the way things in horses are
entirely different from bloat in dogs. Yes, the problems in horses that
predispose the colic are many but they cannot be explained away by merely
conceiving the notion genetics has something to do with it. Unfortunately, a
mere change in the weather can cause a horse to die overnight simply because it
did not feel like sticking its nose into the water to drink on a cold day or
night...they cannot lap at it like a canine can. And this subtle downturn on
intake of water can 'jam' up the works and cause colic...impaction. Tapeworms
attach themselves to an area of the gut where it empties into the larger gut.
The waves inside the horse's digestive system are so strong that when this area
is full of tapeworms taking up the space normally open for food to pass
through, those same waves actually cause a vacuuming of the one gut into the
other and is responsible for 99% of one type of colic. The hindgut of the horse
in the cecum holds up to 35 pounds of food before emptying...lo and behold, we
would NOT want our dogs holding that kind of a load....but one could well
imagine how when a tummy ache occurs, a horse lying down and rolling from the
discomfort might entice this large cecum full of food to go from the bottom of
the belly to the upper and twist, causing a colic situation and the same with
sand, loaded into the gut weighing it down is very similar.
All in all, horses are horses and apples are apples....no comparison, so there
is no need to say if not hereditary in horses, it could be entirely discounted
in dogs as a predisposing factor. Just telling it like it is on this one.....
Deb
Msg: #5 in digest
ubject: Pick your poison
rom: "myjoygs@xxxxxxx" <myjoygs@xxxxxxx>
ate: Mon, 3 Jan 2011 08:10:26 -0500 (EST)
believe environment has a lot to do with bloat as well. What about scenarios
here the dog has been away from home (for showing, training, stud etc) some
ogs are laid back enough and take everything in stride and then there are dogs
hat do not. I think there are a lot of factors, stress, genetics, food, etc.
know a story where a dog was at a handlers for months for showing, the owners
appen to be in town and visited then left and the dog bloated and died.. to me
hat clearly is stress related, like any health issue some can lie dormant and
e triggered by something. Breeding is a crap shoot you never know what your
oing to get health wise, every line has something, its like pick your poison.
now your lines well and what lies in them and try not to double up, which is
ard because some won't disclose what they have experienced in their lines. How
an a breeder make an informed breeding decision without having all the facts.
majority of our dogs we breed go to
pet homes who are loved and spoiled and the heart ache that these pet owners
xperience when their pet becomes tragically ill and they spend thousands to
ave their beloved dog. Or how many of us have had that special show dog and
t bloats, torsions or a litter that we have to put down, innocent puppies,
ecause of mega, its heartbreaking. We have to do the best we can and be well
nformed of what is in our lines and those we breed to and try not to double or
riple up on it, I think it an eye opener when you go to breed
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-----Original Message-----
From: Showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
To: showgsd-l digest users <Showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Mon, Jan 3, 2011 8:27 am
Subject: showgsd-l Digest V5 #26
showgsd-l Digest Mon, 03 Jan 2011 Volume: 05 Issue: 026
In This Issue:
#1: From: Connie Cupps <cuppsconnie@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: vacation - hold mail
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Msg: #1 in digest
ate: Mon, 3 Jan 2011 05:27:26 -0800 (PST)
rom: Connie Cupps <cuppsconnie@xxxxxxxxx>
ubject: vacation - hold mail
www.c-j-shepherds.com
& J Dog Boarding
634 Idle Rd
t. Paris Ohio 43072
easonable Rates - Luxury Settings
our Dog's Home Away From Home"
--- On Mon, 1/3/11, Showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <Showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
rom: Showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <Showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
ubject: showgsd-l Digest V5 #25
o: "showgsd-l digest users" <Showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
ate: Monday, January 3, 2011, 8:11 AM
howgsd-l Digest Mon, 03 Jan 2011 Volume: 05 Issue: 025
In This Issue:
#1: From: VPREZHMF@xxxxxxx
Subject: Sam Lawrence
#2: From: Penny & Bill <ketchy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Sam Lawrence
#3: From: VPREZHMF@xxxxxxx
Subject: Sam Lawrence
#4: From: Cynthia Van Den Berge <vande001@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Sam Lawrence
#5: From: "myjoygs@xxxxxxx" <myjoygs@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Pick your poison
#6: From: Pinehillgsds@xxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Chest, depth, gut & root...<G>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Msg: #1 in digest
rom: VPREZHMF@xxxxxxx
ate: Mon, 3 Jan 2011 06:50:20 EST
ubject: Sam Lawrence
Got this message from both Marion,Sam's wife, and Kathy Steen on Sunday,
elen Miller Fisher
elen- I wanted you to know Sam passed away this afternoon. You may pass
his on to anyone you think knew him.
Thanks and Happy New Year Marion
-----------------------------
Msg: #2 in digest
rom: Penny & Bill <ketchy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
ubject: Sam Lawrence
ate: Mon, 3 Jan 2011 07:03:52 -0500
The fancy has lost one of its great ones. I remember the 80s when Sam
ook the time to offer advice to a rank beginner (me.) He had a kind
emeanor and what knowledge of the breed! Please let me know if
nyone will be doing a memorial for him in The Review--I want to be
ounted IN!
Penny in NC
------------------------------
Msg: #3 in digest
rom: VPREZHMF@xxxxxxx
ate: Mon, 3 Jan 2011 07:06:42 EST
ubject: Sam Lawrence
Sam Lawrence,was one of our Former GSDCA Presidents,serving that office
nd our club the two years before I became President. He and Marion were both
SD Judges, as well as being completely involved is the All Breed Dog
orld,with a number of top winning dogs. He was also a collector of art and
lways used one of his art paintings for their Christmas card each year. He
as not been well for some time,and had home nursing care for this past
ear. Rest in Peace Sam Helen Miller Fisher
elen
am passed away this afternoon. I think the service will be on Wed. He
s being cremated
Kathy
-----------------------------
Msg: #4 in digest
rom: Cynthia Van Den Berge <vande001@xxxxxxxxx>
ubject: Re: Sam Lawrence
ate: Mon, 3 Jan 2011 06:27:05 -0600
My dad and Sam were like oil and water..lol. They knew each other not through
ogs, but through trap shooting...both were big, loud and had their own ideas
bout things! They never got along. I like to think that maybe they can sort
hings out sooner rather than later in the hereafter cause eternity is really a
ong time! Cynthia
Sent from my iPad
On Jan 3, 2011, at 6:06 AM, VPREZHMF@xxxxxxx wrote:
> Sam Lawrence,was one of our Former GSDCA Presidents,serving that office
and our club the two years before I became President. He and Marion were both
> GSD Judges, as well as being completely involved is the All Breed Dog
World,with a number of top winning dogs. He was also a collector of art and
always used one of his art paintings for their Christmas card each year. He
has not been well for some time,and had home nursing care for this past
year. Rest in Peace Sam Helen Miller Fisher
Helen
Sam passed away this afternoon. I think the service will be on Wed. He
is being cremated
Kathy
===========================================================================>
OST is Copyrighted 2010. All material remains the property of the original
uthor and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind
re permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the
howgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.
Each Author is responsible for the content of his/her post. This group and
ts administrators are not responsible for the comments or opinions expressed in
ny post.
ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY
ANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION
F ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND
S A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED.
For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxx
VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://showgsd.org
NATIONAL BLOG - http://gsdnational.blogspot.com/
===========================================================================
-----------------------------
Msg: #5 in digest
ubject: Pick your poison
rom: "myjoygs@xxxxxxx" <myjoygs@xxxxxxx>
ate: Mon, 3 Jan 2011 08:10:26 -0500 (EST)
believe environment has a lot to do with bloat as well. What about scenarios
here the dog has been away from home (for showing, training, stud etc) some
ogs are laid back enough and take everything in stride and then there are dogs
hat do not. I think there are a lot of factors, stress, genetics, food, etc.
know a story where a dog was at a handlers for months for showing, the owners
appen to be in town and visited then left and the dog bloated and died.. to me
hat clearly is stress related, like any health issue some can lie dormant and
e triggered by something. Breeding is a crap shoot you never know what your
oing to get health wise, every line has something, its like pick your poison.
now your lines well and what lies in them and try not to double up, which is
ard because some won't disclose what they have experienced in their lines. How
an a breeder make an informed breeding decision without having all the facts.
majority of our dogs we breed go to
pet homes who are loved and spoiled and the heart ache that these pet owners
xperience when their pet becomes tragically ill and they spend thousands to
ave their beloved dog. Or how many of us have had that special show dog and
t bloats, torsions or a litter that we have to put down, innocent puppies,
ecause of mega, its heartbreaking. We have to do the best we can and be well
nformed of what is in our lines and those we breed to and try not to double or
riple up on it, I think it an eye opener when you go to breed your bitch and
ook around for something to breed to and notice that the gene pool is getting
ery very small trying to find something that is relatively free of health
ssues. Ideally breed to lines that are free of health issues, sadly if we did
hat today, there would be no litters and eventually no german shepherds, what
s the solution? JMHO
Joyce
-----Original Message-----
rom: Cyndi Flautt <caretti1@xxxxxxxxxxx>
o: 'gsd list' <showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
ent: Sun, Jan 2, 2011 1:07 pm
ubject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] ] Re: What is going on?
irst of all, IMO, everything is part genetics and part environment!!
thing like a simple explanation....the KISS factor!!
ere's a question...Was there bloat in dogs back before kibble was invented?
the answer is yes, was it as frequent?
nother question.... do generally all breeds/lines of horses colic?
oogled colic in horses, below is what I got...There was nothing on that
te about it being heriditary.....It's kind of interesting when you compare
at we know/read about bloat in dogs and what can cause colic in horses...
yndi Flautt
w.carettigsd.com
Colic
at It Is
erm used to describe a large range of abdominal discomforts, colic can be
ything from a twisted intestine to an enterolith to worm infestations.
lic is the #1 natural killer of horses.
mmon Causes
lic can be caused by many things. Here are some common causes:
and Colic: When horses ingest sand. Horses that are fed on sandy ground or
ve access to it may eat small bits of sand. Over time, the sand will build
in the intestines and eventually cause discomfort. The horse may be
rrying 30-80 pounds before showing signs of colic.
er feeding: If a horse breaks into the feed area and gorges itself colic
uld result.
rasitism: Worm infestations disrupt circulation in the intestines, or
ood clots and bits of dead worms may cause blockages.
regular Feed Schedule: This may cause a horse to wolf feed if he gets
ally hungry. Feeding right after work or if horse is still hot also can
use horse to come down with colic.
dden Changes in Feed: When you change feeds, or introduce new feed, be
re you do so slowly!
d Feed: Moldy or rotten feed may cause colic.
gestion of Non-feed materials: Stones, sticks, twine, and wood splinters
e examples. Cribbers or horses that chew wood have a risk of swallowing
ts and getting colic.
ne Grain: Sometimes it will pack together and cause blockages in the
testine.
isons: Some poisons may cause colic. Moldy feed may cause mold poisoning
d colic.
isted Intestines: Very severe and life-threatening. There are different
pes of twists in different areas, and they each have names. Here are a
w:
rangulation: When parts of intestine become entangled in tears in the
pportive membrane.
carceration: Intestine is caught in inguinal ring of male horses, and
ood supply is cut off by twisting.
tussusception: One part of the intestine falls into the other. More common
foals than older horses.
ost colics can be classified as one of these 3 types:
testinal Dysfunction
e horse's digestive tract is not working properly. Impaction, paralysis,
d excessive gas are examples. This type is the most common.
testinal Accidents
is is where the intestines are injured or torn, and are less common than
e type mentioned above, but usually require emergency surgery.
nteritis or Ulcerations
is is a colic caused by infections, inflammations, and disease in the
testine, which can be caused by many factors, such as parasites and
ress.
===========================================================================
ST is Copyrighted 2010. All material remains the property of the original
thor and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind
e permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the
owgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.
ach Author is responsible for the content of his/her post. This group and its
ministrators are not responsible for the comments or opinions expressed in any
st.
LL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER
F ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL
RTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A
OLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED.
or assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxx
ISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://showgsd.org
TIONAL BLOG - http://gsdnational.blogspot.com/
==========================================================================
------------------------------
Msg: #6 in digest
rom: Pinehillgsds@xxxxxxx
ate: Mon, 3 Jan 2011 08:11:05 EST
ubject: Re: Chest, depth, gut & root...<G>
The part that was "not true" was when you posted "I would consider an
rish Setter or any Setter to have ribbing more like
ur
SD....and they are never listed in "the group""
I posted an alphabetical list of dogs where the incidence was common and
rovided the source for the list.
We've established the different species "bloat" or colic etc. No argument
here. But does that mean we throw up our hands and say "shit happens"
hen we see certain doggy families that have a higher incidence than
thers????? Does it mean we keep breeding the same pedigrees, watch more dogs
ie
gonizing, untimely deaths and say "heck even rabbits can bloat, shit
appens" or "bad luck".
I happen to agree w/ Barbara, Chuck Krueger, Dr. Clemmens (sp?) etc., that
here is a GENETIC COMPONENT.
I have no idea if it is recessive w/ incomplete penetration (Barbara's
heory) and no doubt there can be environmental triggers. I don't need a DNA
arker though to sit up and take notice that certain lines have a MUCH
IGHER INCIDENCE.
You may be correct Carolyn when you opine "I would seriously consider a
eak and long messenteric root to be part of the problem though....."
Maybe. And maybe THAT'S genetic too. And maybe we're dealing w/ something
hat is polygenic. Dr. Kruger's research led him to believe that TG was
he result of heavy in/line breeding in some lines in the 80s and that lead
o weakened immune systems. So was the genetic link for TG weakened immune
ystems???? And yet we see people breed into THOSE lines.
I had a private post from someone who has a young dog whose mother and
ather (both finished, lovely dogs, exciting pedigrees) WERE BOTH DEAD AT 4.
I don't need a DNA marker to know I don't want to go there. We don't have
marker. For now we have pedigrees.
I'm done with this. There will always be the "shit happens" crowd. I'm
ot one of them.
Kathy, member GSDCA, DVGSDC
elebrating generations of Dual Titled TC'd Champions
visit _http://www.pinehillgsds.com/_ (http://www.pinehillgsds.com/)
n a message dated 1/3/2011 1:49:50 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
arhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx writes:
Not sure what I said that is "not true" in regard to this post.......but I
ould never argue that these
reeds or ANY breed does not bloat. Especially since that is my point!!
believe every breed
nd dog is capable of bloat in the right circumstances....not to mention a
ot of animals of other
pecies..
y point was that I do not believe a Great Dane has the same rib and chest
onformation as our
SD ( nor do I consider them a deep chested breed ) and that I find
etters to have a more
imilar ribbing and chest depth....yet Great Danes are always listed FIRST
or a "bloating breed".
certainly don't find Basset Hounds or Blood Hounds or Goldens or
ottweiler's or St. Bernards,
tc. to have similar chest and ribbing conformation either........
n other words....I personally do not 'buy into' the "deep chested"
reeds and breed types being
ne of the causes of bloat.
would seriously consider a weak and long messenteric root to be part of
he problem though.....
arolyn _marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (mailto:marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx)
www.Marhaven.com_ (http://www.marhaven.com/)
---- Original Message -----
rom: _Pinehillgsds@xxxxxxxx (mailto:Pinehillgsds@xxxxxxx) Subject: [
HOWGSD-L ] Re: Chest, depth, gut & root...<G>
ot true Carolyn, from Hunt Valley Animal Hsp. in MD (where they do a
aporoscopic procedure) :
list of the most common breeds affected by GDV
KITA
ASSET HOUND
ERNESE MOUNTAIN DOG
LOODHOUND
ORZOI
OXER
BULLMASTIFF
CHOW
OBERMAN PINSCHER
ERMAN SHEPHERD DOG
OLDEN RETRIEVER
REAT DANE
REAT PYRENEES
RISH SETTER
RISH WOLFHOUND
ABRADOR RETRIEVER
EWFOUNDLAND
LD ENGLISH SHEEPDOG
OTTWEILER
TANDARD POODLE
T. BERNARD
EIMARANER
Kathy, member GSDCA, DVGSDC
elebrating generations of Dual Titled TC'd Champions
isit _http://www.pinehillgsds.com/_ (_http://www.pinehillgsds.com/_
http://www.pinehillgsds.com/) )
n a message dated 1/2/2011 1:48:14 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (mailto:marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx) writes:
I would consider an Irish Setter or any Setter to have ribbing more like
our
SD....and they are never listed in "the group"
===========================================================================POST
s Copyrighted 2010. All material remains the property of the
riginal author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of
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he Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.
Each Author is responsible for the content of his/her post. This group
nd its administrators are not responsible for the comments or opinions
xpressed in any post.
ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY
ANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS
ERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY
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ROSECUTED.
For assistance, please contact the List Management at _admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx
mailto:admin@xxxxxxxxxxx)
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-----------------------------
End of showgsd-l Digest V5 #25
*****************************
------------------------------
End of showgsd-l Digest V5 #26
*****************************
============================================================================
POST is Copyrighted 2010. All material remains the property of the original
author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind
are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the
Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.
Each Author is responsible for the content of his/her post. This group and its
administrators are not responsible for the comments or opinions expressed in
any post.
ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY
MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS
PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY
FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE
PROSECUTED.
For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxx
VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://showgsd.org
NATIONAL BLOG - http://gsdnational.blogspot.com/
============================================================================
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