[ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: showgsd-l Digest V5 #2294 Sara

  • From: Theresa-GSD Stolz-Scenecrest Farm <scenecrest.geo@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2011 19:42:46 -0800 (PST)

Sara,
 
I have heard UKC judges commend certain GSD's looking better than the AKC's but 
the dog were bred as they were back in the early years. The mix of 
German-American lines which brings out the older look.  I stood next to the 
GSD's I knew going into AKC Shows for people to ask why the dogs are walking on 
their hocks and pasterns.  There are some very good GSD breeders out there but 
many of the times do not attend lots of the shows in certain areas.  Do not 
judge all the GSD's from a few shows you might have attended that did not have 
the best dogs there. 
 
If you could obtain the old Shepherd Reviews dating back in the 20-60's you 
would see the years in how the GSD changed.  In the earlier years the American 
GSD breeders used German imports which today most only breed American 
bloodlines by inbreeding, line-breeding or out-crossing American lines.  The 
German Shepherd Dog has changed in looks since the early years.  When I grew 
up I saw my relative's GSD they brought
here from Austria which were very different than both America or German GSD's 
of today.  They were very correct in their conformation with beautiful 
expressive heads and they showed no fear in any situation.  Which were more 
the model of the founders GSD's  Max von Stephanitz.  I have had GSD 
involvement all my life but showed and was a breeder of horses instead of dogs. 
 
I own Max von Stephanitz first English version printed in Germany and in there 
is a white GSD which was removed in later years when translated. The first 
German version also has the white GSD there but there is no mention of who the 
dog is in either version.
 
People do change of their likes and dislikes neither America or Euro countries 
breed what they did years ago.  Good or bad it is just a fact of life and 
there are those who believe it is better today than it was then.  
 
Years ago there was a breeder whose name was Lloyd C. Brackett of Long-Worth 
Kennels who was in my home town of Allegan, MI.  My father was born in 1912 
lived near Allegan and talked of Long-Worth GSD's and when he was a boy owned a 
GSD but I do not know if it was one of his.  As what I have heard and read he 
was a strong breeder of inbred to inbreeding his lines. 
 
"One of the fathers of the German Shepherd in this country and the oldest 
living continuous fancier of the breed in America (since 1912) his theories on 
breeding have been more than proven in his Long-Worth Kennels where he 
established his own strain in the breed and produced more than 90 champions in 
only 12 years â??a worldâ??s record for any breed. Known affectionately as "Mr. 
German Shepherd" he has proven beyond doubt the soundness of his breeding 
program."
 
To be a good breeder of any animal you need to do your homework.  Talking to 
successful longtime breeders that know what bloodlines that cross well and the 
ones that do not.  Always remember too sometimes it isn't always how long a 
person breeds GSD's but the knowledge they have on the breed. Knowledge does 
come with experience but there are those out there even with the best 
intentions don't always chose the right combination. Genetics can be very 
tricky since genes of the past can come up to haunt you.  Anytime you bring 
that puppy into the world you do need
to do your very best so it can find that special lifetime home.  
 
Buying every book available on the breed on Genetics, learn by reading about 
the great dogs of the past or genetic issues they might have had, or movement, 
very good books for that are...
 
THE GERMAN SHEPHERD DOG: A GENETIC HISTORY by Malcolm B Willis
 
THE GERMAN SHEPHERD DOG: IT'S HISTORY, DEVELOPMENT AND GENETICS by Malcolm B 
Willis
 
GENETICS OF THE DOG  by Malcolm B. Willis
 
THE COMPLETE GERMAN SHEPHERD by Milo G. Denlinger 
 
THE GERMAN SHEPHERD TODAY by Winifred  Strickland  & James Moses
 
TOTAL GERMAN SHEPHERD DOG by Fred Lanting
 
GERMAN SHEPHERD IN WORD AND PICTURE  by Von Stephanitz
 
WORKING DOGS by Elliot Humphrey & Lucien Warner
 
THE DOG IN ACTION BY McDOWELL LYON
 
 
Hocks. 
    Tightness and firmness of the hocks during movement is desirable. The 
stability of the hocks is related to the relative lengths of all three sections 
- the upper thigh (femur), lower thigh (tibia/fibula), and the hock. Too long a 
hock, particularly when accompanied by a long lower thigh, allows for 
considerable instability of the hindquarter drive. Some breeds may stand cow 
hocked due to more angulation of the hindquarter. German Shepherds, but during 
their natural gait (the trot), the hocks should be firm and remain upright. 
   
Length of hock relative to end size in puppies. Long hocks tend to go with 
increased size of the adult dog and a straighter hindquarter. Shorter hocks are 
more desirable in most breeds as they often go with better turn of stifle and 
greater firmness of hocks, therefore better transmission of drive. (*This is 
well worth noticing when purchasing a puppy, particularly in breeds with a top 
size limit of adults.) 
 
Forequarter Angulation and Movement 
  This is made up of several major components, being placement of shoulder, 
height at the wither, relative lengths of the shoulder blade, upper arm, 
foreleg and pastern â?? these all combine to determine the length of reach of 
the dog. The effectiveness of the reach will ultimately also be affected by the 
chest formation (which can alter with maturity), the strength and effectiveness 
of the hindquarter drive as it is transmitted up and forward along the back. 
With good balance of angulation, both reach and drive should be equally 
effective. 
  
Reach 
Length of reach of the forequarter assembly is determined by the lay of the 
shoulder blade, the relative lengths of the scapula (shoulder blade) and the 
humerus (upper arm), the length of foreleg, and the 'arc of movement' that the 
foreleg moves through. 
  
Placement of Shoulder Blade 
The definitions or terms used in this area are: 
 
Well laid back - with the prosternum prominent (ie. visible in front of the 
point of shoulder when viewed from the side), which allows for maximum arc of 
movement from the top of the shoulder blade. 
 
Upright (steep) - lacking prosternum â?? level with the point of shoulder or 
not visible when viewed from the side. The effect on movement at the trot is 
one of loose elbows (or lack of support by the chest) when seen coming towards 
one.
 
Pasterns. 
  The pasterns act as the cushioning device for the load on the front legs 
during movement. 
   
Good medium length and angle of pastern (15â??-20â??) will allow great spring 
and flexibility of the pastern, reflected in a smoother gait as seen in the 
German Shepherd . 
   
Too long in pastern or too great an angle in relation to the foreleg, will 
result in loss of spring, over extension of the ligaments and a looseness 
(paddling effect) when viewed from front-on during movement. If severe, the dog 
will fall on the forehand. 
 
Theresa
  
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Sara Minsk <ninemaplefarm@xxxxxx>
Sent: Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:53 am
Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: ADMIN: Apology to The List


I may add...

Every show I go to, EVERY single exhibitor I talk to is disgusted by 
the GSD. EVERY single one of them regardless of what breed they have. It's hard 
for me to listen too but I have a hard time defending the showring dog.  It's 
not 
normal for dogs to walk like that. I don't remember the GSD I loved as a kid 
walking like that. It's disgusting. Why do their legs hit the ground? They look 
so wobbly and weird.

I hear at our obedience class or at a nosework demonstration or while 
out for a walk.

Why is it that EVERY dog person on the planet (except the specialty GSD 
breeder) is so sad that the breed has been ruined?  Why can't fellow GSD 
breeders see it? In fact, at my last UKC show (I started there to get us ready 
for AKC) 
the judge even commented to me on having a "normal" GSD and it was "nice to 
see". 
:-(

It really breaks my heart.

Plus, I see GSDs at shows shaking, tail tucked, looking around 
frantically. It's just not proper character.

Now, I don't mean to come on here and have my first posts be so 
negative. I am trying to learn. So, please help me understand .....

Does anyone know when the hind end thing started? I know it wasn't 
always like this? Does it give a bigger gait or something?  Does anyone wish 
they 
could go back to breeding normal dogs but maybe they think they won't win in 
ring anymore?

Does anyone else feel our show ring atmosphere is intimidating to a new 
show ring exhibitor?  Don't some of you wish people could show their own 
dogs without
the antics?

I apologize again.

Sara Minsk


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