I wasn't talking about who revolutionized anything...I was talking about trying to make the dogs all look the same...someone said Goldens do........well, at a casual glance that's true...and it is due to one dog, mainly. The biggest change in Shepherds I believe came post Lance...whether it was due to his dam or his grandsire or his left hind foot makes no difference to the point I was trying to make...that if you let the breed all become cookie cutters, then there is nowhere left to go to fix something that goes wrong while you're cutting out all the cookies. And if all the dogs were close to identical, with the same faults and same virtues, there'd be no need to have so many dog shows to find out which one was best... they'd all be the same. If you want to pick on whatever dog changed the breed, I believe you will find that most of the big changes in the GSD occurred after Lance.......whether you can lay the changes on the doorstep of either side of his pedigree wasn't my point......I was trying to make a simple statement that had to do with cookie cutter dogs... ........... there are times when I'm not succinct or clear, but I thought I was pretty clear with my original statement, and it had nothing to do with Lance's topline, pedigree, or where he got whatever he had. How it turned into that is a puzzle to me...........and I don't want to argue about it....... P EKOLAN1@xxxxxxx wrote: > >In a message dated 11/25/2006 8:44:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, >Santanagsd1954@xxxxxx writes: >Lance didn't have extreme motion.,.. He also had a less than perfect >topline, and I have video's to prove it... He just had some more rear >angulation from >his Dam's side, than was the norm for the day and everyone jumped on it...I >was there... I know..and others who were there will tell you the same.. >.Troll vom Richterbach was lacking in forequarter to start with and that >is a whole different ballgame..Let's get the History straight... or don't >talk > > > >Troll revolutionized the breed in this country mostly through his Grandson >Lance of Fran-jo > Lance had ONLY one glaring fault. I didn't breed him. >And I was there too. >Fred Migliore > > >============================================================================ >POST is Copyrighted 2006. All material remains the property of the original >author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind >are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the >Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. > >ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY >MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS >PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY >FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE >PROSECUTED. > >For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx > >VISIT OUR WEBSITE - URL temporarily deleted due to AOL issues >============================================================================ > > > > ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2006. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - URL temporarily deleted due to AOL issues ============================================================================